contaminated
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 10:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by contaminatedThe point however is that the police car did hit the poor girl - so it must have been going too fast
for the situation.
Eh - so all those guys who are trained accident investigators have been wasting their times. Of course - all they need to know is that if someone is
hit by a car then the car must have been going too fast.
What a load of shite!
Oh come on, I'm not saying that in all instances when a car hits a pedestrian it's going too fast - but in this case, do you really think
it's likely it was under the speed limit or that the incident could not have avoided if it was travelling a bit more sedately?! Who was it
mentioned a proportionate approach - it was a stolen car not a kidnap!
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scootz
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 10:40 AM |
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That's the whole point... WE DON'T KNOW!
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contaminated
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 10:54 AM |
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You're right, and it's wrong to have a speculative discussion, or an opinion about anything - it leads to the need for forums like this.
In future I will wait for the Police to investigate fully before commenting.
I would however add to your sentiments for the girl and her poor family - and I'll concede, for the officer, if it turns out he was lawful in
his actions.
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scootz
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 11:00 AM |
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It's not wrong to have discussion. Discussion is good!
What's not good is when someone (and I'm not referring to you) uses such tragic, and uninvestigated, incidents to be Judge, Jury and
Executioner.
The OP has already demonstrated in another thread that he is prepared to take the word of the tabloid media as gospel when it suits his agenda of
Police-bashing.
I'm not a Police apologist... if wrong doing has been done, then offenders must be punished accordingly.
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asn163
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 11:49 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
Terrible tragedy, loss of a young life. Copper probably distraught too. Really bad all round. No lights - sounds very odd.
Personally I wouldn't have my 16 year old daughter wandering the streets in a gang at 11:30 pm the night before her GCSEs.
Chasing after stolen cars on an estate, gangs of youths, etc, blame our broken society.
I agree, this was my thoughts.
Simon
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pajsh
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 12:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by asn163
quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
Terrible tragedy, loss of a young life. Copper probably distraught too. Really bad all round. No lights - sounds very odd.
Personally I wouldn't have my 16 year old daughter wandering the streets in a gang at 11:30 pm the night before her GCSEs.
Chasing after stolen cars on an estate, gangs of youths, etc, blame our broken society.
I agree, this was my thoughts.
Simon
Totally agree.
Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of this incident the bigger picture is one of a society in which respect for authority (be they teachers,
police, etc) has been lost as it has not been drilled in by the parents.
I'm no fan of either profession but I do think they have an increasingly difficult job in contolling our out of control society without the
support and respect they deserve.
If we do not change this we need not worry about global warming. Our society will fall apart before we destroy it.
I used to be apathetic but now I just don't care.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 01:05 PM |
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I've been restraining myself here but I feel I have to comment on this a follows:
1. The police have a very hard job to do. I wouldn't want to do it it would be too stressful/dangerous/difficult and too easy to make a
mistake.
2. The people who do the job of trying to ensure that the public (you and me) are safe and protected from the bad guys/idiots, on the whole do a great
job.
3. Sometimes they might make a mistake - occasionally as in this instance it turns out tragically. I and most other people occasionally make mistakes
too - thankfully I haven't killed anyone by accident but when someone does get killed like this, the driver is usually totally distraught and
wishes it hadn't happened. I don't know the circumstances of this particular incident but I'm sure that this was not done
deliberately.
4. If you or I or a police officer is found to have been driving in an inappropriate manner, then we will be dealt with according to the law - as will
this policeman if he is found to have been driving inappropriately. We have to have faith in our system that the authorities will investigate fully.
This is one of the few countries in the world where we can have faith in the authorities to do the right thing.
5. It is not appropriate for gangs of youths to start throwing bottles and bricks at the police at any time so if they do they deserve all they get.
So to all those people who think we are living in a police state go and try living an a real police state like Zimbabwe or some of the eastern block
countries or the USA for instance.
Thank you for reading this
mark
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 01:31 PM |
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Agree with 99% of what you put Mark - but if the newspaper report is found by the IPCC to be true - ie no sirens, but more importantly no headlights
combined with excessive speed then that to me wouldnt be a mistake but total and utter negligence on behalf of the officer.
Of course they have a tough job but they are in such a position that they should be setting the standards. There are very rightly rules for pursuits
which police drivers have to obey even if the hardened criminals use the rules against them to get away sometimes. Time will tell whats actually
happened hopefully and if its found the officer in question has broken the law they are supposed to be there to uphold then hopefully he wont be doing
the job any longer. Conversely, if he did have lights and sirens going then hopefully he'll soon be back doing the job he probably loves and can
himself recover from what he himself must be going through now.
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James
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 01:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kendo
She was 16 and her ex was 23!?!
What's the problem with that then?
Cheers,
James
[Edited on 21/5/08 by James]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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contaminated
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 01:50 PM |
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So after all that, did anyway catch the debate on Radio 2? I had to go into a meeting 2 mins before 
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DorsetStrider
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 02:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by contaminated
I might be missing the point here, but isn't a forum a place to express opinions? I don't know of the original poster's similar
threads, but it strikes me only as his own opinion - to which he is entitled. The "mob rule" and "police state" comments were,
I think, just banter.
My own view is that I doubt you could place any reliance on the speed of the police car, whether it's light were on or the distance the poor
girl was thrown based on witness statements, who were clearly upset. The point however is that the police car did hit the poor girl - so it must have
been going too fast for the situation. End of, surely! If, and I mean if, in addition it turns out that he had no blues and twos, or lights, then I
hope they nail him to the wall.
Firstly let me point out that this is not just a 'gutter rag' story, this story is also being covered on the bbc and sky news. Secondly
while I don't hold too much faith in the 100mph thing the officer was obviously driving at speed for the victim to have travelled 50yards from
the point of impact (that distance is consistant in all the reports). Thirdly all the reports agree that the police unit did not have it's
'blues and twos' on. Surely driving at speed without a siren is dangerous otherwise what is the point of them?
Yes my comments about mob rule were banter, however they were written when I was sethingly angry so I'll admit poor judgement on that score...
however I have little doubt on past experience that this will either be swept under the carpet or the officer concerned will be let off with a wrist
slapping... If this was Joe public he/she would be charged with vehicluar manslaughter. The police should know the consequences of dangerous driving
and therefore should set an example.
For the record I applied to join the police force several years ago... I withdraw my application 3 months later after seeing the direction the country
was heading in.
For the gent who asked if I had lived in a police state I can confirm that the answer is yes (albeit for only a short time). PM's don't
wake up one morning and declare a police state as the public would not accept it... they sneak it in slowly hoping no one will notice. That's
exactly what is happenig in this country.
I would like to take this opportunity to point out that I object to the accusation that I am using this tragidy to promote anti police views. Both of
my recent threads have not been police bashing... they have simply been posted to provide food for thought and if they appear to be police bashing
maybe it's because I expect justice to apply to everyone regardless of rank or position.
Who the f**K tightened this up!
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 04:06 PM |
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Shame they weren't about to finish their shift or their way to or from the sandwich/takeaway shop.. they'd have had the Blues and
Two's on then!
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mr henderson
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 04:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DorsetStrider
Both of my recent threads have not been police bashing...
They just seem that way.
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BenB
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 05:02 PM |
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How's about this for a moral of the story-
-kids are vulnerable
-letting your kids charge around an estate at almost midnight is dangerous for their health
-if /when they get injured / killed you can't transfer all your guilt for negligently looking after your children onto some other person....
Let's face it, the kid will be potrayed as a little angel "who always wanted to go to college" etc etc and the entire shedload of
blame will be offloaded onto the police.
Of course this will totally ignore the fact that she was pegging it round an estate at almost midnight, and if she was a perfect angel "who
always wanted to go to college" then WTF hadn't the parents made sure she was at home and in bed rather than being at risk.
If her parents hadn't done such a negligent job she'd still be alive.....
Harsh but true... But of course we don't live in a society prepared to be bothered enough to expend the energy it takes to actually bring up
children....
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ravingfool
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 05:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MkIndy7
Shame they weren't about to finish their shift or their way to or from the sandwich/takeaway shop.. they'd have had the Blues and
Two's on then!
LOL
finally had to post because I ran out of popcorn
Whatever the ins and outs, it's certainly a shame that a young girl has died. But I blame the parents.
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 21/5/08 at 09:59 PM |
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We don`t live in a police state, for example you cannot go to jail for something you have read, oh sorry you can.
Darren
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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mr henderson
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| posted on 22/5/08 at 06:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by turbodisplay
We don`t live in a police state, for example you cannot go to jail for something you have read, oh sorry you can.
Darren
Bit of explanation required there, first about going to jail for something you have read, and secondly, do you actually believe we are living
in a police state? Do you really believe that?
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 22/5/08 at 09:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DorsetStrider however I have little doubt on past experience that this will either be swept under the carpet or the
officer concerned will be let off with a wrist slapping
No chance whatsoever. Even if the evidence shows that the officer was not negligent, it will probably be the end of his TrafPol career. If he was
negligent he will be prosecuted.
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DorsetStrider
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| posted on 22/5/08 at 02:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by DorsetStrider however I have little doubt on past experience that this will either be swept under the carpet or the
officer concerned will be let off with a wrist slapping
No chance whatsoever. Even if the evidence shows that the officer was not negligent, it will probably be the end of his TrafPol career. If he was
negligent he will be prosecuted.
Anyone remember the case of the officer test driving his new car (vauxhall vectra?) at 157 MPH on the motorway with no blues and twos who was given a
stupidly lenient sentence?
[Edited on 22/5/08 by DorsetStrider]
Who the f**K tightened this up!
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 22/5/08 at 05:11 PM |
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quote:
For the record I applied to join the police force several years ago... I withdraw my application 3 months later after seeing the direction the country
was heading in.
You withdrew your application because of the way the country was going? So you turned down the opportunity of actually contributing and doing
something about it?
Either way I imagine that your application would have been withdrawn for you based on your attitude shown on this thread.
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mr henderson
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| posted on 22/5/08 at 05:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mistergrumpy
quote:
For the record I applied to join the police force several years ago... I withdraw my application 3 months later after seeing the direction the country
was heading in.
You withdrew your application because of the way the country was going? So you turned down the opportunity of actually contributing and doing
something about it?
Either way I imagine that your application would have been withdrawn for you based on your attitude shown on this thread.
I was thinking something along those lines, but was too shy to say so
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scootz
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| posted on 22/5/08 at 06:11 PM |
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I assume that you are the middle one of the 5 tits in your avatar!
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DorsetStrider
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| posted on 23/5/08 at 02:43 AM |
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No my application was accepted.
Who said I don't contribute? I just contribute in a different manor. Seeing the way the country was going I was not comfortable with the
prospect of using the "I was only following orders" defense.
Scootz I will not lower myself to name calling and personal insults so baiting me is only a waste of your time.
Who the f**K tightened this up!
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Macbeast
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| posted on 23/5/08 at 05:29 AM |
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Police State ?
It depends what you mean by police state but -
You can be held without charge for 28 days and senior police want to extend this to 48 days
You can be convicted of downloading and reading (bomb-making) information from the internet even if they can't prove intention to use it.
CCTV cameras can track your car wherever it goes (except when it's stolen apparently)
The police can already demand details of your cellphone calls and there is a proposal to record details of all your landline calls and internet
surfing
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its name is probably Donald.
( I have no problem with individual rank and file police )
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 23/5/08 at 07:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DorsetStrider
Anyone remember the case of the officer test driving his new car (vauxhall vectra?) at 157 MPH on the motorway with no blues and twos who was given a
stupidly lenient sentence?
I certainly do, but unless my memory is playing tricks I don't recall any members of the public getting killed or even injured.
If a MOP is involved in a police incident, then it will be examined in the closest detail, not only by the Police but also the IPCC. Be assured that
if the Officer driving the car has done anything wrong the IPCC will not let it go.
By the way, the estate from which these little darlings are from is pretty much the crime hotspot of Tyneside, and residents are all extremely
anti-police. I'm familiar with similar areas in my own city, and you couldn't trust a thing that most of the inhabitants say. I have
even seen scrotes walk out in front of police cars during a chase just to try and slow them down. I'm not implying that's what happened
in this case, but you can be pretty sure that the statements made in the story by the scrotes have zero credibility.
It's already been proven that the car did have it's headlights on at the time of the incident, so what else are they lying about?
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