ChrisLeary
|
 posted on 21/7/11 at 09:45 AM |
|
|
Fuelling help needed with zetec
Morning everyone,
Hope you're all good?
I picked up an L reg 2.0l zetec powered 7 yesterday, it's on gsxr throttle bodies and running megasquirt.
I need some advice about what I think is a fuelling problem.
When in gear and driving along, it also happens pulling off, the car is very sluggish, sometimes jolting the car into a forward/rearward bounce and
then it suddenly picks up and will accelerate. But when changing gear or trying to accelerate slightly, there's a strong smell of fuel.
Does this sound familiar to anyone? do you think it could be easily sorted?
Also, are there any zetec knowledgeable members around oxford who might possibly be able to give me a hand?
Thanks in advance,
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
omega 24 v6
|
| posted on 21/7/11 at 11:24 AM |
|
|
first thing to do would be download tuner studio or megatune and then get a copy of your ecu fuel spark map and post it up on here.
Then we can advise.
ETA that having read your alternator post that you should solve this problem first ( the alt one) as a low voltage could play all sorts of tricks with
the squirt electrics.
i.e batt volt correction factors etc etc
[Edited on 21/7/11 by omega 24 v6]
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
|
|
|
scutter
|
| posted on 22/7/11 at 04:45 PM |
|
|
Chris, I've sent you an Email with some old Ms maps attached.
ATB Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
|
|
|
ChrisLeary
|
| posted on 26/7/11 at 10:09 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
first thing to do would be download tuner studio or megatune and then get a copy of your ecu fuel spark map and post it up on here.
Then we can advise.
[Edited on 21/7/11 by omega 24 v6]
I had a little play with tuner studio today, I've just looked at the screen in disbelief at how much information is there to be honest! But as
requested, I think this is the spark map...
Thanks in advance for any help.
Chris
|
|
|
scutter
|
| posted on 26/7/11 at 02:19 PM |
|
|
First thing I would say is, using map on throttle bodies is really difficult, I can't remember how to switch it over but TPS would give better
resolution, map tends to be nothing the all with no middle ground.
ATB Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
|
|
|
matt_gsxr
|
| posted on 26/7/11 at 03:22 PM |
|
|
Dan,
it is in some Ini settings.
But the easiest way of doing it is via the installer. This assumes you are running the MSExtra software on the MS1 (which is a good idea).
here are some instructions.
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Tuning_Manual.htm#MT_Alphan
Agreed on using Alpha-N instead of speed density.
|
|
|
ChrisLeary
|
| posted on 26/7/11 at 06:24 PM |
|
|
Hi Matt,
Thats completely lost me! I gave you a text earlier, hopefully we can sort something out so you can show me the ropes. 
Chris
|
|
|
omega 24 v6
|
| posted on 26/7/11 at 06:46 PM |
|
|
That spark map looks to be for a boosted engine if I am not mistaken. MAP on a N/A is usually 100 max.
Also use Alphan instead of speed density.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
|
|
|
matt_gsxr
|
| posted on 26/7/11 at 06:56 PM |
|
|
yes, sorry, not helpful. MS is so much gobbledy gook.
Dan is right. Running speed-density (that is a fueling table that uses MAP and RPM to determine how much fuel), isn't the greatest idea with
individual throttle bodies.
Alpha-N (that is a fueling table that uses TPS and RPM) is the simple route and is a well trodden path.
I think the symptoms that you have already described may well be related to running speed density and not Alpha-N. Alpha-N is sensitive to balance,
but I have some balancers that you can use.
We will get it sorted.
Matt
|
|
|
ChrisLeary
|
| posted on 26/7/11 at 07:10 PM |
|
|
Brilliant, thanks mate, I'm away again this weekend, but i'm free the rest of this week and next, I'll be around next weekend (6th
and 7th), I could come up to you then if you like?
Give me a text when you're free and I'll be there!
Cheers mate,
Chris
|
|
|
mark chandler
|
| posted on 26/7/11 at 08:06 PM |
|
|
That map is indeed a bit of a mess, you need to group the values around where you drive so the top half is completely wasted as set for a forced
induction system as positive pressure.
The RPM is also wasteful, 1/3 of the table is for extremely high RPM, when the values should group around where you drive.
There is no need for the settings on the axis to be linear, log the MAP TPS and RPM on a brisk drive then graph in excel then group around the most
used for best resolution.
I would guess that if this is the sparks map the fuel will be no better !
Regards Mark
|
|
|
matt_gsxr
|
| posted on 27/7/11 at 10:15 PM |
|
|
Just an update
I met up with Chris today and we had some fun sorting out his car. He has sorted the comms issue, so that was a good start.
We made some progress. The acceleration enrichment was all or nothing, and the all was giving 10x as much fuel as necessary, which made for a
kangeroo acceleration and black smoke!! I am amazed that anyone could drive it like it was. We turned that off.
We balanced the throttles (not bad) managed to get Alpha-N working and used Scutters fuel map (nice one Dan), with a few tweaks, and did a few miles
of autotuning. Seems to run better than before.
Open issues:
1) I didn't know the flow rate of gsxr1000 k4-5 injectors, so guessed the req fuel and we mapped around that.
2) Temperature sensors are wrong in TunerStudio (basically we don't have the ini files), so TS and MLV were reporting the wrong temperatures (so
autotune needed the minimum CLT hacking). Does anyone have the .ini files for Standard Ford Sensors? presumably he can just copy the ini files to the
right place and hey presto.
Acceleration Enrichment was left off, plan is for Chris to copy Dan's values in once the map is closer.
Most of the AFR table is 14.7 (he has narrowband sensor, fairly sure of this as it has no controller), and tuning with it seemed to work. Obviously
14.7 isn't ideal, but difficult to do much else with NB controller.
Plan was to get the fueling mostly sorted (with autotune) and then AFR table can be updated.
Steady progress.
Matt
|
|
|
scutter
|
| posted on 27/7/11 at 10:20 PM |
|
|
Let me get home from work and I'll see if I recorded any of the Inc files for temp sensors.
2002 GSXR 1000 injectors flow 230cc/min from what I recall.
ATB Dan.
[Edited on 27/7/11 by scutter]
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
|
|
|
matt_gsxr
|
| posted on 27/7/11 at 10:44 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by scutter
Let me get home from work and I'll see if I recorded any of the Inc files for temp sensors.
2002 GSXR 1000 injectors flow 230cc/min from what I recall.
ATB Dan.
[Edited on 27/7/11 by scutter]
I agree that is the flow rate on those ones (K1-K3).
Sadly, the K4-5 ones are orange and different.
It doesn't really matter as mapping around it was easy enough, but it would have been nice to have done it "right".
I didn't really understand why the Req fuel for Chris (about 9ms) was so much shorter than in your Map (more like 19ms). We didn't do a
lot of comparison though, just wanted it working.
Matt
|
|
|
ChrisLeary
|
| posted on 28/7/11 at 08:30 AM |
|
|
Morning,
Thank you so much for your help last night Matt. And thank you Dan for the maps you sent across.
I understand MS a whole lot more than I did, I'm still not at Matt's level, but I know a damn site more than I did!
Like Matt said, I think the temp sensors is the next thing to try and sort, currently my coolant is 10 C and intake temp was about -17 C, obviously
not correct on what was quite a pleasant night last night.
Matt suggested easytherm, does anybody know how to use this? or possibly have the files so I can copy them across please?
Thanks,
Chris
|
|
|
scutter
|
| posted on 28/7/11 at 04:42 PM |
|
|
Sorry I forgot to look last night when I got home, Easytherm is quite simple, you can download guides off the net. As for the difference in
Req'd fueling, I was running standard for injectors not the ones from the throttle bodies.
Keep going, by the time i've done mine you'll know it inside out.
ATB Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
|
|
|
