GreenHornet
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| posted on 29/4/13 at 05:19 PM |
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Zetec Blacktop - GSXR ITB's - Mapping Question
(Can someone please indicate their Req_Fuel figures)
Hi All,
Following my last thread I now have the engine running and all is well. Previous problems that have now been rectified were;
Fried VP921 ignition driver - Replaced with BIP373 from ebay £11.99
Incorrectly wired VR sensor by ECU Builder - Who knows who he was but none of the regular companies I hasten to add.
Knackered Fuel Pump - Now replaced with home made swirl pot, low pressure facet pump to swirl pot and Bosch HP to injector rail.
No I have the enviable task of mapping the engine. I have been sent a couple of maps from forum members which were helpful as a check, however before
I start I wanted to check the Req_Fuel figure.
Tunerstudio gives 16.6 (8.3m/s) in the top but the car runs really sooty at this figure and after a while I can smell the fumes on me so it is really
rich. I have GSXR 1000 ITB's with std cream ford injectors at 200cc/min. The engine runs all the way down to 5.5m/s so Im buggered lol.
I have the VE bins down to mid 30's at idle so I reckon they are reasonably OK but I would like someone running throttle bodies to indicate if I
should take what tuner studio says or should I make an adjustment downwards due to running ITB's
I am running a narrowband at the moment until I get my hands on a wideband at Stoneleigh. Unless anyone has one for sale lol !!
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FatChapChipChop
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| posted on 7/5/13 at 03:08 PM |
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I too would like to know what a sensible Req_Fuel number should be ... I have GSXR750 injectors (reputed 240cc/min) on the bike bodies and have a
sensible tickover and gentle revability with a Req_Fuel value of 2.5 on a 1.8ltr Zetec Silvertop !! .. Is it just bike injectors and their spray
patterns? ... Injectors are quite close to the head in this case as well becaue of a sandwich style plate that mounts the bodies using their rubber
boots.
Starting isn't quite their (almost wants to), but does get going once a little heat is in the head after a few attempts, then ticks over fine
(ASE seems to now be where it wants to be).
It's really difficult to know if Req_Fuel is in a sensible place for this configuration ... Otherwise all my efforts are simply a compromise.
So, first thing would be to know if anyone knows where I can send my injectors to so that I can at least confirm their flow rates?
Cheers (hopefully not hijacking the thread as we seem to be in the same boat) ..
Drive fast, don't look back!
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GreenHornet
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| posted on 7/5/13 at 03:51 PM |
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Well I have a bigger RF ratio of 16.6 or 8.7ms probably because I have large 48mm throttle bodies.
Starting is fine and running and revving is fine but have no wideband at the moment and the narrowband is reading lean whilst I have unburnt fuel
coming out the exhaust.
I would have thought someone would be along to help......
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baz-R
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| posted on 18/5/13 at 08:32 PM |
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what ms and algoritham you trying to use?
[Edited on 18/5/13 by baz-R]
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GreenHornet
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| posted on 19/5/13 at 09:45 AM |
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Ok so the last couple of days I have settled things down and have the car idling nicely and warming up OK too.
Once I had her idling at a RF of 11ms I changed her back to 16.6 and then rescaled the VE table to suit. The some finer tuning around idle and the bin
just below to smooth things out.
I have found that running throttle bodies means the normall approach doesn't apply and am disappointed that no one has really documented this
conversion in full as ITBs on a zetec is common place now.
I'm running AlphaN as speed density is useless with this set up. The airflow moves at an extreme pace just off idle that SD just doesn't
have the resolution.
With warm up I have found that again need higher VE numbers than expected to get her at a good AFR. The engine runs better at 13 - 13.5 cold and will
run nicely at 14 when idling warm.
The timing map is going to cause me more worries I believe. I get a nice low kpa when retarding the ignition to about 6 degrees btc but this
doesn't help when old so I have her at 11 degrees at the moment. Many maps I see are putting in as much as 38 degrees when on full chat but
everything I have read says zetec a like no more than about 28 degrees all in by 4000rpm so I feel that a rolling road is the only real way to sort
timing out.
As it stands I will be road mapping it this week. I will then document what I do on my website where I aim to put the build process articles.
www.ian-Allen.com
PLEASE NOTE:
I can not emphasise enough the importance of having a wideband sensor. I was always wondering if they were worth the money but having got a bargain on
eBay I fitted an Innovate LC-1 with and LSU 4.2 and a gauge. Immediately I was on the ball. I warmed the engine up without the sensor in the exhaust.
Calibrated it and then fitted it. Within 1 minute of starting the engine I had I idling spot on. They are a necessity and I was an arsehole for not
having got one sooner lol lets face it, we spend hundreds on ITBs and the ECU but try to fook about with a cheap narrow band. Hat off to those who get
close with a NB but its not for me......
[Edited on 19/5/13 by GreenHornet]
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baz-R
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| posted on 19/5/13 at 07:09 PM |
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if you have itb's there is itb mode algritham on new msextra firmwares on ms2 and 3 the only other way is blended tuning thats a nightmare
look here
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/ITB_Load_Mode.html
i have a ms2 running a 1800 zetec with busa bodys and st170 injectors and with itb mode started and run ok but stutterd a little until i tweeked the
switchpoint down
its a bit tricky to get your head round to start with but the idea is (when set right) you run both SD and alpha-n but at diffrent points of vac and
tps postions making the best of both worlds like blended tuning but in 1 ve table 
data log a drive and work out where you get 90kpa and set it in your switch point then autotune with TS should get it drivable
when i first tried to get my engine running i used alpha-n and i was pig rich on no load at all revs set it to itb and idles like a dream i can even
get down to 450-500 rpm tickover
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GreenHornet
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| posted on 19/5/13 at 09:44 PM |
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I am running MS 1 Extra at the moment but already plan on upgrading to MS3 over this winter as I am also thinking of a turbo conversion too.
I have read about the itb mode and it appears to make it a lot easier to get a descent tune.
For now I am pacing myself through the tune. Today I was happy that she started cold and ran through to warm up with no intervention from me at all,
makes a nice change.
This week I will continue to map and work to rough the acceleration enrichment calls too.
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