black.viper
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| posted on 28/7/13 at 08:51 PM |
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Help with first tunig steps Duratec + microsquirtEDIS + TB gsxr
Dear locostbuilder members,
I would like you all to wholeheartedly thank you for the inspiration and courage, which I found here. Inspiration and courage I need for decision to
swap my old pinto engine to newer Duratec engine. Old pinto I tuning to 168hp and 200Nm but engine was very thirsty (15-17l/100km) and for my daily
cruisng and triping it was nothing positiv (specially for my pocket :-)...
... but now is engine swapped! The biggest challenge for me was to install microsquirt, but it turned out that it was very similar like installatin my
old MJL unit.
This weekend I first start the engine, it was after a long battle! I had a spark, petrol also speed also, but the engine still would not start ...
Finally, I poured into TB a little gasoline and the engine after a few revs started and turned off again after a while ... led me to the idea that it
is too lean.
I began to experiment with the amount of injected fuel - was calculated hodnoutou 12.6 (calculate required fuel 1998ccm + 4 cylinders + 270 cc / min
injectors and airfuel ratio 14.7), I raised to 33, this value I gradually decreased to 18.6 (the lowest value to which my motor running when I was
adding gas, but I had to significantly increase the value for Startup / Idle see figures below...
microsquirt basic setup
microsquirt startup idle setup
Installation menu in the chart, I had to raise, otherwise I could not keep the engine did not start or idle ... so I set it at least a little running,
but it's not ideal :-(
My engine specification:
Engine duratec 2.0 16V
Microsquirt (MS2Extra "Beta" 3.2.1) + EDIS modul
throttle bodies GSXR 1000 (version 2001-2003) with black injector HI imp 270cc/min / 3 bar (I hope)
Wideband O2 system
SYTEC fuel pressure regulator - now I have set 3,5bar
Can anyone advise me which direction to go when tuning, or consult with the default settings, if I ever make a mistake? In the initial calculation
fuel required I reduced the value of 270 to the current 180, but still it seems to me that the engine needs more fuel. Does anybody have a similar
specification? You can share with me about your setup!
Thank you very much!!! (And sorry for my english I´m doing what I can :-)
[Edited on 28/7/13 by black.viper]
Im building Tiger Cat E1 Duratec engine
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Radiogareth
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| posted on 28/7/13 at 09:20 PM |
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Are your throttle bodies perfectly balanced. I'd start with MAP (which you will need to smooth and dampen), not Alpha-N. Read this website for
more info.
http://www.fbbmotorsport.co.uk/ms_html_files/west1msq.html LOTS of info......
You need to have wide band O2 to inform your tuning. Its almost impossible otherwise, plus you absolutely need to know what your fuel injectors flow
at the fuel rail pressure is, same problem. An engine will run from around 9:1 up to over 16:1 and you just can't do it by smell.
Sudden steps in the graph don't make good sense either.
After lots of this I eventually got a Honda 90 cc running fine on petrol, LPG and E100, not all at the same time. MS is excellent, keep at it 
Gareth
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black.viper
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| posted on 28/7/13 at 09:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Radiogareth
Are your throttle bodies perfectly balanced. I'd start with MAP (which you will need to smooth and dampen), not Alpha-N. Read this website for
more info.
http://www.fbbmotorsport.co.uk/ms_html_files/west1msq.html LOTS of info......
You need to have wide band O2 to inform your tuning. Its almost impossible otherwise, plus you absolutely need to know what your fuel injectors flow
at the fuel rail pressure is, same problem. An engine will run from around 9:1 up to over 16:1 and you just can't do it by smell.
Sudden steps in the graph don't make good sense either.
After lots of this I eventually got a Honda 90 cc running fine on petrol, LPG and E100, not all at the same time. MS is excellent, keep at it
Gareth
Thank you for reply.
MAP - I don´t have it. I´m using only TPS and due this I´m using Alpha-N map. TB are balanced... and about injector - on this forum and other I found
that black injectors on GSXR 1000 year 2001-03 have 270cc/min with 3 bar fuel pressure.
Yes I have Wideband O2 system - its saying me that I´m too lean... but I don´t know why and where I have mistake in my calculation...
Your website are fantastic! I red them when I started with build.
About steps on the graf - outside temperature is over 30° now, I want quickly change value and see what happend - I know that isnt ideal :-(
Could I ask to you? What value you are setting to your MS (like required fuel, size injectors and other)... all my values I sets due
Microsquirt guide and step by step consulting with manual for Microsquirt and Edis setup...
[Edited on 28/7/13 by black.viper]
Im building Tiger Cat E1 Duratec engine
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jeffw
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| posted on 29/7/13 at 08:45 AM |
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Are you sure you have 3Bar fuel pressure. ie have you measured it with a correcting gauge? Often adjustable fuel pressure regulators are either
adjusted incorrectly or faulty. I suggest you use a fixed pressure Bosch FPR.
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Radiogareth
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| posted on 29/7/13 at 09:47 AM |
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OK, its NOT my website but yes, it is very good :-)
I'd check the actual flow from an injector by powering it direct from 12 volts, into a closed vessel and collect what flows in 1 minute.
If you are lean then something isn't right, either the injector flow rate (fuel pressure on the bike?).
I would still consider MAP, its a lot easier to get a stable vacuum reading with a simple mini-plenum fed from each TB, through a simple small hole
restriction. Its what I used on my single cylinder and its what Triumph use on their Daytona throttle-bodies. all 3 pipes feed to a small plenum which
houses the MAP sensor and the IAC.
I don't have the maps on this computer I'm afraid - have you tried the 'success stories' section on the original MS site?
http://www.msruns.com/index.php
Must be someone on there with a similar set-up, or email the webmaster of the Westfield site and see if he will share his map.
But I think the main issue will be actual fuel flow. Once you know that for sure, it will run.
Good luck.
Gareth
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black.viper
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| posted on 29/7/13 at 02:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Radiogareth
OK, its NOT my website but yes, it is very good :-)
I'd check the actual flow from an injector by powering it direct from 12 volts, into a closed vessel and collect what flows in 1 minute.
If you are lean then something isn't right, either the injector flow rate (fuel pressure on the bike?).
I would still consider MAP, its a lot easier to get a stable vacuum reading with a simple mini-plenum fed from each TB, through a simple small hole
restriction. Its what I used on my single cylinder and its what Triumph use on their Daytona throttle-bodies. all 3 pipes feed to a small plenum which
houses the MAP sensor and the IAC.
I don't have the maps on this computer I'm afraid - have you tried the 'success stories' section on the original MS site?
http://www.msruns.com/index.php
Must be someone on there with a similar set-up, or email the webmaster of the Westfield site and see if he will share his map.
But I think the main issue will be actual fuel flow. Once you know that for sure, it will run.
Good luck.
Gareth
Ok, thanks guys for help.
Today I ordered all other sensor :-) like MAP + other baro correction sensor, temperature sensor for input air...
And yes, I have to measure right injector value - it´s crucial!
Petr
Im building Tiger Cat E1 Duratec engine
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black.viper
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| posted on 3/8/13 at 09:28 PM |
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Great!
Now I have a good idle with nice rpm and with normal fuel requirement 12,7...
I measured GSXR injectors flow and they have 265cc/min@3 bar and 338ccm/min@4bar - FSE Sytec Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator.
Thanks to all for your help, especially big-vee-twin!
Im building Tiger Cat E1 Duratec engine
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