Calzonii
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 posted on 26/5/15 at 04:10 PM |
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Zetec Duratec Problems
Hi all,
About to buy an Mk indy r kit and am trying to decide what engine to install.
I have been thinking of a duratec but can somebody please explain the differemce between these engines and the zetec? I have heard about blacktop,
redtop... But i dont know what the difference is and what donor cars contain which engines?
Is the duratec a straight 4 or v6? Has there been a lot of change to the models over the year and if so what makes a duratec a duratec or a zetec a
zetec?
Sorry for all the questions but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Cal
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coozer
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 04:39 PM |
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The zetec is the last of the ford engines that bolt up to all the rwd gearboxes. Same pattern as a pinto, crossflow etc..
All of Fords rwd gearboxes fit the zetec but the duratec is from a time whre you will have ot look to Mazda for one that fits.
Duratec is a Ford/Mazda engine that is totally different to the zetec. Zetec has a cast iron block, Duratec alloy.
The inlet and exhaust are on the opposite side as well.
Ford stop using the zetec in the Mondeo in 2000, however it went on till about 2005 in the focus as the ST170 then Mk1 RS turbo. The Focus then moved
over to a Volvo 5 pot engine.
ST170 zetecs are branded as duratecs but its purely a badging exercise. Cast iron block as all zetec remained.
Some of the earlier V6's were branded Duratec as well but nothing t odo with the mainstream 4 pot engines ford used from 2000 on.
Im just starting to gather donor parts for my next build and have gone for the zetec that Im going to rebuild into a turbo engine. I looked at the
duratec but Im not keen...
Zetecs are getting hard to find but you can still pick up a brand new one quite cheap. (about £750)
Hope that helps,
Steve
[Edited on 26/5/15 by coozer]
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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big_wasa
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 04:50 PM |
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Zetec is cheap solid and reliable and easy to work on but is heavier and older.
Duratec is newer lighter but more expensive and difficult to install.
Zetec will max out at 165bhp ish before needing cams and head work in NA form.
Duratec will get to 200 on the same mods that will take the zetec to 165.
Its all down to money and target power figures.
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Calzonii
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 04:58 PM |
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Hi guys,
Steve, Thanks for that info! Can you also explain blacktop and redtop engines? Do you know about those?
Also what is your reason behind choosing zetec? Purely because the cast iron block is stronger than the duratecs alloy one and therefore can withstand
extra turbo pressure?
Basically im looking a car with better low end torque for better acceleration. And the plan is to supercharge it at some stage. Is fitting a type 9
gearbox with a duratec not gonna work then?
Cheers
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big_wasa
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 05:25 PM |
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Zetec will bolt on to the standard iron bell housing that comes with a type 9.
Duratec needs an aftermarket bell housing circa £200+
zetec you can use standard or aftermarket flywheel and clutch combo.
Duratec unless st150 has dual mass flywheel so more expense.
Black top. Latter zetecs had a black cam cover some alloy latter plastic. early zetecs had a plain alloy cam cover hence silver top.
Red top is a Vauxhall engine.
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Calzonii
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 05:30 PM |
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Thanks Big was!
Isnt ST150 a zetec? Or is that ST170?
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Ugg10
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 06:09 PM |
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Just to add to the confusion -
There is alsomthe Zetes SE also known as the sigma engine. This came in 1.25, 1.4, 1.6 and 1.7 and was used in the fiesta, focus and puma. These are
similar to the duratec in that they are all alloy and thave the exhaust on the drivers side and do not have the standard ford bell housing bolt
pattern. The 1.7 has variable valve and also a non standard spigot bearing cavity, later versions also have vct. A 1.7 version with bike throttle
bodies and a decent exhaust will give you 150hp in a fully dressed package for under 100kg, 135kg with alloy bell housing and type 9 gearbox.
These are standard fitment on the silva r1ot Se/J15 and also the Caterham 120/140 and Westfield base model.
In general best bang for buck would the st170 iron block zetec, ultimate performanc would be a 2.3 or even 2.5 duratec (Note the mazda mps engine is a
turbo'd duratec, and the mk3 mx5 is a duratec with variable valves) and light weight screamer would be a 1.7 zetec se with ss4 cams, arp rod
bolts, HD valve springs giving 175hp+ at just over 8k revs.
So, many choices, all the best.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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coozer
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 07:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Calzonii
Thanks Big was!
Isnt ST150 a zetec? Or is that ST170?
ST150 is a duratec (coorected)
The Fiesta SE engine designed by Yamaha, totally different again from the zetec or duratec, plus its either 1600 or 1700 if your lucky! its a good
engine though and can be tuned near 200bhp and revs to 8000rpm!
As Wasa says I went for the zetec as its solid, reliable, and cheaper to buy and mod. Seen plenty with no wear near 200,00 miles.
Reason I didnt go duratec is cause Ive seen plenty with wrecked big ends and liner problems.. I wanted a good start to get 350bhp out of!
And, as Im going to be stripping the block for low comp pistons and rods it made littel difference, other reason is I have had plenty zetecs through
here but no duratecs, just staying with what I know.
ST170 is a zetec with a different head, cams and vvt, and duratec on the cam cover.. Had one in MNR that made 178bhp, after I sold it it was modified
and made 206..
Here it is...
Here is a duratec V6 as found in a Mondeo..
And a 2.0L Duratec pic of a Focus...
[Edited on 26/5/15 by coozer]
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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matt5964
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 07:53 PM |
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Thought the st150 was a 2ltr duratec found in fiesta c2006 ?
Luego velocity XT 2.0ltr 221.3bhp 178.9lbft
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austin man
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 08:06 PM |
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Nephew has a full zetec turbo set up for sale he had it built and fitted to a series 2 RS turbo, Hybrid turbo tubular manifold etc all there just
needs an ecu. Correct pistons arp bolts etc
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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coozer
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 08:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt5964
Thought the st150 was a 2ltr duratec found in fiesta c2006 ?
Yep, my mistake, post corrected. Thanks.
Like I said Im sticking with what I know
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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matt5964
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 08:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
quote:
Originally posted by matt5964
Thought the st150 was a 2ltr duratec found in fiesta c2006 ?
Yep, my mistake, post corrected. Thanks.
Like I said Im sticking with what I know
Me too zetec all the way good power for reasonable ££ and fairly easy to work on and loads of parts available
Luego velocity XT 2.0ltr 221.3bhp 178.9lbft
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 08:34 PM |
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The Duratec HE engine is what you are talking about.
The Duratec HE installed in the Fiesta ST150 has a standard flywheel, the egr valve removed and a head with larger valves.
It is no more difficult to install than a Zetec the only issue you have really is the bell housing but these are readily available but a bit
pricey.
There are many performance parts available for the Duratec HE
I have to say its a great engine and has a race bred pedigree.
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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big_wasa
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 08:50 PM |
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The duratec is a great engine, I have one but the zetec is so easy to work on. The crank is keyed and the timing can be set by a blind person with a
tenners worth of tools. The sump on a black top can be customised for free if you can weld. They can work in a kit on a shoe string or be a 500bhp
monster if you have deep pockets.
They are cheap and cheerful but a little long in the tooth now.
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Mr C
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 09:20 PM |
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Gone for duratec myself. Started with an ST150 engine. It has better ports than the mondano version so breathes a little better. I wanted to keep mine
relatively current with lots of tuning potential with lightness. As mentioned same mods compared to a Zetec realise a little more power, though
220"ish be on standard internals is probably the limit for reliability. Forged parts readily available and fitted along with Newman cams
stronger springs, large injectors and a rotrex supercharger, supposedly good for 440bhp according to TTS, though I'll probably run around 330bhp
to ensure reliability. You pays your money...
Girl walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre, so the barman gave her one
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Calzonii
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 09:38 PM |
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What makes the zetec easier to install and work on? My ultimate plan is to supercharge the engine. Id be looking to get around 325bhp. Im torn between
duratec and zetec.. I really am is. Probably leaning towards duratec as its lighter and has a bit more power for short term before i supercharged it
like Flakmonkey did in his build. I have a budget of about £15k as building it with my flat,ate and longtime friend whos an addict for tinkering with
anything mechanical. The 15k budget is for everything, for tools, MK Indy R kit, donor, you name it.
Is the blacktop zetec 2.0ltr?
Also the duratec 2.3L is that a Mazda L engine DOHC I4? (Edit) And is it the engine from a mondeo or a mazda? and if so what era?
Can anymkre recommend what engine with what donor car I should get for each for the options 1. Zetec 2. Duratec?
Thanks for all the comments and help guys
[Edited on 26-5-2015 by Calzonii]
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Ugg10
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 10:02 PM |
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If you are looking to supercharge then search on here for jeffw, he has a 2.0l zetec running 400hp reliably. Loads of pics amd video's to look
through. With that sort of power you need to budget for brakes, tyres, diff and gearbox that can take it, also in a seven I woukd budget for track
day tuition so you dont back it into a hedge on the first run.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Calzonii
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 10:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10
If you are looking to supercharge then search on here for jeffw, he has a 2.0l zetec running 400hp reliably. Loads of pics amd video's to look
through. With that sort of power you need to budget for brakes, tyres, diff and gearbox that can take it, also in a seven I woukd budget for track
day tuition so you dont back it into a hedge on the first run.
Haha Ugg sound advice if ever ive heard it!! Foot the the floor lad!
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Calzonii
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 10:07 PM |
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Also I just found this on SBD motorsport
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/FAQs/Duratec.html
Says the 2.3L is rare now? Is this true maybe think again cause finding parts cpuld be a mightmare?
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Mr C
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 10:15 PM |
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The best option for duratec is the fiesta ST150 circa 2004-2008 approx £500. New the duratec is around £2k. The 2.3 turbo version is found in the
Mazda 3/6MPS circa 2005ish onwards. Pretty tunable with an easy 300-350bhp available. In hindsight I should have gone for the latter option, though I
wasn't originally intending to go forced induction, though couldn't help myself in the end. There's a 2.5 option as well,fitted to
transit connects I believe.
Girl walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre, so the barman gave her one
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Calzonii
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 10:21 PM |
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MrC are those engines easily tuned tho? Parts migh pt be hard to get seeing as they are getting rare?
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Mr C
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| posted on 26/5/15 at 10:46 PM |
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Bigger choice of Parts and more readily available for the 2.0 check out burton power for some availability though shop about as they aren't the
cheapest.
Girl walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre, so the barman gave her one
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mcerd1
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| posted on 27/5/15 at 01:11 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Calzonii
Is the blacktop zetec 2.0ltr?
zetec blacktops are either a 1.8 or a 2.0
I don't blame you being confused by it all - ford used the duratec name on at least 7 different unrelated engine designs...
everything from the 1.3 8v Kent based cast iron lump to the American 3.7L cyclone V6
[Edited on 27/5/2015 by mcerd1]
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