ibakes
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 09:13 AM |
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Duratec Ignition timing marks
Cant find the embarrassed smiley icon
Right need to check that I have 10 degrees advance on me Duratec whilst just running the EDIS cos its not firing up at all.
But I cant seem to find the timing marks
Does anyone know where they are on a 2ltr duratec? or how I can create any when its at TDC?
and how easy is it to adjust if necessary? i know there is some movement in the crank sensor.
Thanks in advance
[Edited on 29/5/07 by ibakes]
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stevec
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 10:06 AM |
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One way to find TDC number1and4cyls. is to look at the front pulley, you will see a 6mm hole in it.Rotate the engine in its normal direction and when
the 6mm hole is at the 12oclock position it will line up with a 6mm threaded hole in the front of the front cover, then put a 6mm bolt in the hole
and screw in finger tight.This will give you TDC and the rest you can do with a degree disk,
But the correct way really is to do it by the timing peg hole in the exhaust side of the block, if you have the peg that is.
Steve.
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ibakes
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 10:14 AM |
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Not got the peg but yeah, can get TDC with the alignment pin from hole in the pully.
But some how need to know that im gettting 10 degrees with the timing light when cracking
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Fatgadget
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 10:21 AM |
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Get or make yourself a 360 degree protractor.Once you know where TDC is,piece of cake to locate any angle the crank is at in relation.
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ibakes
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 10:25 AM |
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So
Get TDC and mark 0 on the cover and pully and then use thoes marks as timing marks?
if so must remember to borrow some tippex 
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stevec
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 10:26 AM |
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I think the cutouts in the trigger wheel are every 10 degrees, count them, iff there are 36 with 1 missing then fannys your aunt, just put a mark on
the first one before TDC and a mark on the cover at TDC.
Steve..
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ibakes
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 10:44 AM |
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Yeah got 36 .. at least I know where to start tonight
Many thanks for all the help, Fingers crossed its not too far out. but if it is then that would explain why its not starting yet
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stevec
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 11:21 AM |
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Nice one Mark, image shamelessly stolen and filed away for use on something some day,
Steve.
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CairB
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 11:52 AM |
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It's as SteveC stated re the peg in the side of the block for locating the crank at TDC. Unless it's been keyed the crank pulley with the
36-1 tooth wheel is located by friction and 'could' be in the wrong position, although unlikely unless the crank bolt has been loosened
and the pulley rotated. You can buy the tool but its just an M10 bolt that locates the web of the crank a fixed distance from the bolt mount face. I
made my own but I can't just remember the length. Without the bolt you could use one of the cheap verniers to position the piton at 2 positions
either side of TDC and split.
As for strobe light marks, I don't think there are any so paint your own once you've found TDC.
Is the cam timing correct?
Are the plugs indicating that your getting fuel?
Assuming your getting sparks are they occuring on the right part of the stroke. This can be tested by cranking with a plug removed, connected and
grounded with something in the plug hole that enables you to tell the compression stroke. Or if the cam cover is off its fairly easy to spot the
compression stroke with the cams.
If your not sparking then the VR sensor connections may need to be swapped.
HTH
Colin
[Edited on 29/5/07 by CairB]
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ibakes
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 12:39 PM |
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Hello and thanks for all the advice
Right, the crank hasn’t got a key way on it but I set TDC off from piston 1, locked the flywheel and tightened up the pulley with the locating pin in
place and the cams set, so I am hoping that this is still correct. but i will double check later on today with a Dial gauge.
I also used the tool which came with the crank sensor to put it in place.
I am getting a spark from the edis unit so it looks as though the sensor is at a good distance, wiring the right way around and EDIS unit working.
Plugs are Sooty and have fuel on, also seen the fuel being injected before properly fitting the rail.
I have had the engine popping and F##ting through the exhaust and throttle bodies, but some times the engine gets tight I would say due to
compression.
How does the edis unit tell the engine what it TDC as TDC is about 90 degrees out to the sensor
I have had tips to set the trigger angle to 60 but the sensor is really at 90
I have also included a copy of my ms setting
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Fatgadget
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 12:52 PM |
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[Quote:]
How does the edis unit tell the engine what it TDC as TDC is about 90 degrees out to the sensor
By referencing the missing tooth on the pulley,any crank angle can be accurately calculated.
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ibakes
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 01:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Fatgadget
By referencing the missing tooth on the pulley,any crank angle can be accurately calculated.
Suppose the Edis 4 unit will be set up at the same no matter what at the 90 degrees
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Schrodinger
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 01:42 PM |
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from memory the missing hole is something like 90 deg. BTDC so that the timing can be corrected BTDC. Otherwise it would have to "wait"
another 300 or so degrees before firing.
Keith
Aviemore
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chriscook
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 03:07 PM |
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Did you try swapping the plug leads around?
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ibakes
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 03:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chriscook
Did you try swapping the plug leads around?
No.. hopefully they are correct
Not really any other place they can go, the coil pack is listed as 1 to 4.... 1 being at the front and 4 at the back (by coil pack)
When I get home, i'll post up the order the coil pack states just to make sure
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CairB
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 04:10 PM |
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Make sure that the engine going stiff isn't overfuelling causing hydraulic locking, not good as it can damage rods and pistons.
The trigger angle is not the trigger angle that the EDIS sees from the engine but the angle that megasquirt sees from the EDIS. It is different
depending on whether the megasquirt is triggered from the leading or trailing edge on the signal from the EDIS, I think early versions required 23
deg. It needs to be set to be compatable with the hardware on your megasquirt. Refer to the MS site for details.
However, if you disconnect the signal from the MS to the EDIS it should operate at 10 deg limp mode so should not be affected by this setting. It
should be able to fire in this state but obviously not run well.
On a side issue.
It is very important that the crank pulley bolt is tightened to the specified torque and angle, it's just that the alignment of the cams, crank
and toothed wheel is purely down to friction due to the bolt clamping force. It is recommended that a new bolt is used and you can get diamond
encrusted washers to increase the friction. I now have these on the crank pulley and cams. They were not fitted to the engine originally. You can get
them from Ford or Cosworth.
Cheers,
Colin
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ibakes
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 04:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CairB
Make sure that the engine going stiff isn't overfuelling causing hydraulic locking, not good as it can damage rods and pistons.
Colin
Only happened a couple of times but waiting to see if I get the 10 from the edis unit alone before I do any more
But the Spark Plugs are Sooty
quote:
Originally posted by CairB[/i
The trigger angle is not the trigger angle that the EDIS sees from the engine but the angle that megasquirt sees from the EDIS. It is different
depending on whether the megasquirt is triggered from the leading or trailing edge on the signal from the EDIS, I think early versions required 23
deg. It needs to be set to be compatable with the hardware on your megasquirt. Refer to the MS site for details.
However, if you disconnect the signal from the MS to the EDIS it should operate at 10 deg limp mode so should not be affected by this setting. It
should be able to fire in this state but obviously not run well.
Colin
Been following all instrucions from here but a few people have been telling me to set it at 60
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Basic_Configuration_Manual.htm#desedis
quote:
Originally posted by CairB[/i
On a side issue.
It is very important that the crank pulley bolt is tightened to the specified torque and angle, it's just that the alignment of the cams, crank
and toothed wheel is purely down to friction due to the bolt clamping force. It is recommended that a new bolt is used and you can get diamond
encrusted washers to increase the friction. I now have these on the crank pulley and cams. They were not fitted to the engine originally. You can get
them from Ford or Cosworth.
Cheers,
Colin
Yep followed all instrucions as per Duratec manual, just not a Diamond encrusted washers
Really need to check the timing in limp home mode to check its all ok first, i'll let you know how i get on at home later
Many thanks for all help 
[Edited on 29/5/07 by ibakes]
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ibakes
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 05:29 PM |
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Right, checked TDC with the alignment pin in the pully, marked TDC. put a dial gauge down number 1 and marker is spot on.
checked the timing with a strobe light and way out, checked number 3 and spot on 10.
so just about to try changing 1 and 4 and 3 and 2 over on the coil pack to see what that brings with the timing light
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ibakes
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| posted on 29/5/07 at 05:50 PM |
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Got it started
Many thanks for all your help
Bloomin 1-4 and 2-3 swapped over and fire within 2mins of playing around with crank settings
Appologies to Chris for not trying it sooner
Right off to sort out the O2 sensor
and a big thanks to everyone suggestions again
[Edited on 29/5/07 by ibakes]
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chriscook
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| posted on 30/5/07 at 08:50 AM |
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Just glad you got it sorted. I'd swap the wires between the edis and coil pack over so you can put the plug leads in the right place - otherwise
you/someone else is going to get confused somewhere down the line.
quote:
Originally posted by ibakes
Got it started
Many thanks for all your help
Bloomin 1-4 and 2-3 swapped over and fire within 2mins of playing around with crank settings
Appologies to Chris for not trying it sooner
Right off to sort out the O2 sensor
and a big thanks to everyone suggestions again
[Edited on 29/5/07 by ibakes]
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