DaveFJ
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| posted on 20/6/08 at 08:19 PM |
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breakdown grrrrr
OK
some of you may have read already that i broke down this evening trying to get to Newark....
Now been recovered home and am trying to work out what went wrong!
was driving absolutely fine for 25 miles then seemed to lose all powerand then died. had a looka nd could see nothing untoward so tried again(car had
abotu 5 mins rest) and seemed to be ok again... drove about 1-2 miles and it happened again. again let it rest a few mins then tried again and got a
few hunderd yards.. did that a coupe more times til i could stop somewhere safe off the dual carriageway and call recovery..
anyway.. looking for clues where to start looking? I am thinking possibly fuel supply problem but then why would letting it rest for a few mins
help?
Just reaslly peed off now 
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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myke pocock
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| posted on 20/6/08 at 08:43 PM |
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Has your car been on the road before? Is your tank vented in any way? If not could you be creating a partial vacuum (if thats possible?) in the tank
and it needs a few minutes to correct. Just an idea.
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 20/6/08 at 08:45 PM |
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tbs are pretty much as per the original bike installation. I popped the filter socks off and couldn't see snything untoward..
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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austin man
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| posted on 20/6/08 at 08:56 PM |
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I am running a zetec had similar problems as did a mate the fuel filter was clogged due to debris in the tank, cleaned it ot runs fine now
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se7ensport
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| posted on 20/6/08 at 08:58 PM |
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It does sound like fuel starvation, does your tank have a breather or could there be crap in the pump?
on a side note i'm running a pinto and about to go to gsxr750 TB's, what does your injection set up look like i.e. swirl pot? original
bike pump? do you have a return line etc...
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austin man
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| posted on 20/6/08 at 09:07 PM |
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how long have you been running the car my problem started after 3000 miles the brotherin ln laws after abot 5k.
What managerment system r u using ? this may also have a bearing on the problem
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 20/6/08 at 09:19 PM |
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only 300 miles
running megasquirt n spark extra
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 20/6/08 at 09:25 PM |
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Fuel tank vacuum sounds favourite - go on a run, wait until it dies, then rush out and undo the filler cap. If you hear a loud whoosh of air then you
need to sort out your tank venting.
If you don't hear a whoosh - I'd think about something getting too hot...
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paulf
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| posted on 20/6/08 at 09:31 PM |
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Have you checked for a spark when it wont run? does the fuel pump run when first switched on and does the injector priming pulse occur ? it is usually
possible to hear a click from the injectors after about 2 secs depending on how it is set up.Are you running coildrivers in the ecu or an Edis
unit?.
Paul.
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 20/6/08 at 09:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Fuel tank vacuum sounds favourite - go on a run, wait until it dies, then rush out and undo the filler cap. If you hear a loud whoosh of air then you
need to sort out your tank venting.
If you don't hear a whoosh - I'd think about something getting too hot...
interesting! sounds like a mission for tomorrow! 
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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iscmatt
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| posted on 20/6/08 at 11:16 PM |
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I would say check your filters too. Your tank may have contained swarf when it was manufactured and blocked the filter. Something like this happened
to me. My filter had bits of metal in it, unfortunatly i had put the filter after my pump so my pump was knackered too! Though I easily got
another pump for cheap of ebay and i havent had any problems since re situating the filter before the fuel pump!!
Hopefully will give you something to look for if your problem continues!
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 21/6/08 at 08:19 AM |
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i have one of those clear lp filters before my lp pump and that looks ok so i'm guessing that my filters should be ok...
going to take it out for a run this morning and then check after 15 miles or so by removing the filler cap... Daves/Mykes idea about the tank vent
just seems to fit....
now i think about it, the other day i was out and the wife was driving, had a similar loss of power but i put it down to her.... but we were low on
petrol and the gauge had packed in so i thought it might be out of petrol ... we stopped for about 10 mins then dorve to the nearest garage where of
course i opened the filler cap to fill up. it then drove fine the 20 miles home....
my tank vent is very small diameter pipe which i suppose could have gotten blocked easily.. and the 2 way valve is off the sierra filler tube so could
also be playing up....
Just wish i had thought to try it last night...
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 21/6/08 at 03:46 PM |
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Well I set out this morning and left the fuel fuller cap off. Car purred like a kitten all the way to Newark!
Thanks for your help! 
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 21/6/08 at 03:51 PM |
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Looks like the next job is to sort out the venting!
Good result!
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 22/6/08 at 04:49 PM |
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Well i guess it wasnt the tank vent after all!
after a perfect run up in the rain yesterday, i set off home this morning and made it 20 miles!
exactly the same problem. tried all sorts today...
removed the sock filters, got about another mile
rewired the injectors - another mile
checked cool and rad - another mile
found a wire on the alt broken (probably broke it at last stop taking nose off)... another mile
thought it might be crank case pressure so cut the pipe to the catch tank.. it then ran for 30 miles and i thought i had cracked it
let it rest for 5 mins and got a couple more miles then gave up and called recovery
next step is to park it up and throw a zippo at it
to cap it all swmbo isnt talking to me because i was supposed to be home this morning
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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Doofus
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| posted on 23/6/08 at 11:07 AM |
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I had a really similar problem to you a while back.
Car would run for ages and then the swirl pot would run dry. I assume that you have a swirl pot since you said lp pump.
After leaving the car for a while and re-priming the pot by turning the ignition on and off it was then ok.
I cured it by removing the lp pump pre filter.
My pump was one of those facet pumps with a filter built into the feed pipe so I had over filtered the lp pump and I also had no back pressure on the
outlet of the pump so it knocked a lot.
I took the extra filter off and the car ran great after that.
In the end I ditched the swirl pot, had one welded onto the bottom of the tank (thanks locor1) and now just have a hp pump and pre and post
filters.
Paul.
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 23/6/08 at 11:26 AM |
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I would say that sounds promising except.... why did it run fine for 150 miles on saturday? the only difference I can see is that it was raining and
therefore cooler...
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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Doofus
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| posted on 23/6/08 at 01:41 PM |
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I know what you mean but I was on my way to Ashby Folville (40 miles) and it stopped about 3 miles from Ashby then on the way home it did it about 5
miles from home and I could only do about 20 mph so limped home. I had me foxed for a while.
You might not have the same problem but I'd have a look at the fuel supply.
The worst bit was that it didn't do it straight away when I set off
V frustrating
Paul.
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 23/6/08 at 01:49 PM |
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it does sound exactly like my problem.... it's just the fact that it worked on saturday that is foxing me!
I am thinking fuel vaporisation... will get a decent fuel Px reg (with a gauge so i can see what is happening) and change the fule rail to a flow
through rather than a dead end type...
Also add some bonnet venting and add a scoop to get more air to the TB intakes....
see how that goes for now!
anyone know the best place for a FP reg with gauge?
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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corpi
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| posted on 23/6/08 at 02:53 PM |
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I bought one of these. price seemed reasonable. (at least i have not found any cheaper).
http://ashorterlink.com/2756
please note: I am in the process of installing it, and cannot vouch for the accuracy of the gauge. I did adjust it to 3 bar by using compressed air.
Hopefully I will have it regulating petrol later this week.
Pieter
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Schrodinger
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 12:01 PM |
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Dave
Are you using a Tiger fuel tank?
If so they were renown for being full of crap and blocking in line filters.
Also what filler are you using?
The Tiger supplied filler cap is vented and the pipe from the tank goes to the flange but you can't use this flange with an aftermarket cap as
the cap itself will not be vented.
Hope some of this helps.
Keith
Aviemore
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 12:20 PM |
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Nope
tank was made by Deneo and is great.. I made sure it was fully cleaned out before use.
I have an LP filter before the LP pump to the swirl pot and that is a clear type so I can se the fuel and filter in there- both look fine...
I am currently thinking that my design of HP system at the TBs is to blame..
The GSXR fuel rail is a dead end type so I put a T union int the feed to the fuel rail and connected that to the pressure regulator from the EFi donor
and on to the return to the tank...
I am in the process of changing that arrangement so the fule rail is a flow through type ending in an adjustable regulator with a gauge so I can see
what is going on better. I figure this should give a flow of petrol through the rail which will help keep the fuel cooler? and probably keep the
pressure better regulated.
I am also adding some bonnet vents to reduce the underbonnet temperature.
Just have to see how I get on!
cheers
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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Jenko
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 03:48 PM |
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Hi Dave,
Can you do a data log of the car using Megatune?.....just keep logging until the car conks out and see what the AFR is doing, the fuel supply stopping
with show your afr going lean followed by the engine rpm dying...
That would be the first step......
What fuel pump arrangment do you have with the single ended rail?......if you have a non return system but a normal pump, the pump could be getting
over loaded and cutting out........
Other thoughts.......
As soon as it cuts out, pull a plug and check for spark or, if you have MS extra, then you can run the spark and injector test to see if you have
spark and fuel.........
Does the car pop / bang / stutter / before conking?....
As soon as it conks, what happens when you turn the key?...does the fuel pump turn as per normal to prime the system?.....
It does sound like fuel, but I would certainly not discount a wiring problem when hot. This is why doing a datalog will be realy helpful...if MS is
loosing power for example, this will also show as all the log results will go to zero.....
I'm running a swirl pot set up (so has a return), and using the same pressure regulator as Corpi posted, so far no problems.....
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 04:04 PM |
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I have the following setup
a facet lp pump fed via a lp filter going to a seperate swirl pot which then feeds the original sierra HP pump which feeds the HP filter in the engine
bay whcich then feeds the fuel rail but has a T peice in the line which feeds the Px reg which has a return line to the swirl pot in the rear.
when it looses power it is really weird... seems to riun on 3 cylinders sometimes and also smells like it is running really rich.. but that may be
because I have the throttle burried trying to keep it going! kept going for about 4 miles the other day @ 40mph along the hard shoulder trying to get
off the motorway to somewhere safe.... thing is I know that when it has sat for 15 mins it will run again fine for a few more miles....
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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Jenko
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 05:22 PM |
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I haven't read back through the entire thread, so apologies if this has been mentioned before........
Could it be the injectors are being overcome by too much fuel pressure?......so, can you check the pressure to the fuel rail?.....By stopping the car
the system pressure could have time to de pressureise it's self, hence everything back to normal....
Are you 100% sure the pressure reg is up to the job?......and it really is regulating the o/p pressure to the rail?...........
When you finally stop, can you smell petrol...could be worth checking for any leaks, and therefore a reduction in fuel pressure should for example a
clip on a fuel line be overloaded. Are all high pressure fuel lines 'high pressure'?.
Apologies if I'm asking the obvious, and you have infact checked all of the above......
I'm still not discounting the spark though - Again, no spark, no ignition so fuel will just slosh about in the combustion chamberand be shot out
of the exhaust valves...hence the strong smell....
Next time it happens, sniff the exhaust, and pull a plug to see if it's flooded......
Ditto the questions on the logging......
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