paulf
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| posted on 19/7/08 at 10:07 AM |
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Zetec oil loss problem.
I am still having problems with my engine using oil. It was getting oil in number 3 bore , when i removed the plugs it was always wet in that bore.I
removed the head and replaced all the guide seals and ground the valves in, the exhausts were a bit pitted and there was a build up of soft carbon on
number 3 cylinder exhaust valves.I also removed the piston from number 3 bore and found the rings to be in good condition and free in the ring
grooves, there is little wear in the bores and the original honing marks are still showing.
After putting it back together I started it and let it warm up and it seemed to be free from smoke when i revved it on the drive.Later on I took it
out for a run and as soon as I pulled away it blew out clouds of smoke and continued smoking when driven.
I removed the plugs and it now has oil in bores 1, 3 and 4, I cant understand why it should be worse and why it seems to be runing down the valve
guides despite new seals .
I was hoping to run it until the tax runs out in october then change the engine again but it is now using so much oil it is unuseable so need to sort
the engine or find a good replacement Zetec so am not to happy with it at present.
Paul
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 19/7/08 at 12:12 PM |
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Is you crankcase breather system clear and working properly?
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martin1973
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| posted on 19/7/08 at 12:18 PM |
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got the samething with my zetec
new guides seals and plained head still the same. looking in to putting something different in never been a fan of ford engines, may go for something
vw based.
martin
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Werner Van Loock
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| posted on 19/7/08 at 12:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Is you crankcase breather system clear and working properly?
As above, if that's not working correctly then oil will go where it can, so out the oil seals or up the bores.
What's your oil level in the engine, not too much oil is it? If you have a shortened sump, then you also need less oil unless it has a
compensation for it.
Is the cambelt timing correct? if it's off on the intake side and the inlet valves opens too late then you create vacuum and the only way in for
air/oil is thru the bores/valveseals.
zetecs can be 1 tooth off when cambelts get replaced
http://www.clubstylus.be
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britishtrident
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| posted on 19/7/08 at 03:18 PM |
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Check the breather system and oil level but if nothing obvious I would guess piston ring -- broken or seized oil control ring which won't show
up with compression test.
Usually leaking valve stem oils seals show up immediately after the engine has idled for a short period such as at traffic lights.
Piston ring problems tend to become obvious when the throttle is floored when driving --- big cloud of grey-black smoke.
[Edited on 19/7/08 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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richardlee237
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| posted on 19/7/08 at 03:47 PM |
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Are the rings the right way up ??
Not too sure whether a Zetec has rings that require fitting in the correct orientation, but I have certainly seen engines that could pump a lot of oil
into the exhaust if the compression, or oil control rings were the wrong way up.
One particular marine engine was pushing oil out of the exhaust 15 feet above the engine and only the second compression ring on one cylinder was the
wrong way up .
Quote Lord Kelvin
“Large increases in cost with questionable increases in performance can be tolerated only in race horses and women.”
Quote Richard Lee
"and cars"
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paulf
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| posted on 19/7/08 at 07:17 PM |
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I will check the valve timing but think it is correct, I dont suspect the rings as it only showed oil in number 3 cylinder before I dismantled it and
I removed that piston and checked the rings but found no faults so I can assume the others are still ok.
The plugs used to run a light brown coulour apart from number 3 which always used to show oil but now they all are black and sooty.
The crank breather is ok as i have vented the original to a catch tank and have a filter on the cam cover which shows no signs of oil breathing.
The oil level I assume to be correct as although the sump is shortened I am still using the original dipstick so actual level of the oil should be
correct as per the original.
The most annoying thing is that although it used to use oil it was ok if i topped it up every 200 miles or so but now it uses so much I cant use it
until I find the fault or a new engine.I am getting tempted to fit the Fireblade engine I have had for years but dont know ifit will be a better
option than a decent Zetec if i can find one and dont really want to have the car off the road at present.
Paul.
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whitestu
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| posted on 19/7/08 at 08:05 PM |
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You can get a brand new 1.8 Blacktop on Ebay for £550. In the scheme of things its not an expensive fix and wouldn't take long to swap.
Stu
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paulf
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| posted on 19/7/08 at 08:14 PM |
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I have considered that also but at present its about £500 more than I can afford as I really should have a holiday this year and have other expenses I
need to take care of. The engine thats in should be ok as it was supposed to have only done 70,000 miles and does look like new inside apart from the
oil leak.
I have a Fireblade engine in the garage and could fit that, or sell it to finance a new Zetec which would be the easiest solution but am hoping to be
able to make this engine last until the tax runs out before changing it.
I just missed a 1.8 black top on Ebay for £82 as i forgot to check my bid on it.
Paul
quote:
Originally posted by whitestu
You can get a brand new 1.8 Blacktop on Ebay for £550. In the scheme of things its not an expensive fix and wouldn't take long to swap.
Stu
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zetec7
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| posted on 19/7/08 at 09:59 PM |
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As someone else pointed out, the oil has to be getting into that cylinder from the bottom up (pas the oil control ring), or from the top down (past
the guide seal).
If there's no breather tract running oil fumes in with the air/fuel mixture (in which case, all 4 cylinders would get it, then these are the
only possibilities. Either the oil control ring is bad (or the bore has a wide spot), or maybe the guide seal didn't seat properly, or is
faulty. The good new is, the list of culprits is agreeably short!!
http://www.freewebs.com/zetec7/
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paulf
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| posted on 19/7/08 at 10:28 PM |
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I had come to the same conclusion, but the rings must be ok as it was only oiling up no3 bore before I stripped it down and the rings in that bore
were ok and I didnt touch the others.I cant see as I did anything wrong fitting the seals as they just tap onto the guides and are then pushed into
place when the valve guides sit against the flange on the seal.I did wonder about the oil supply to the head being excessive as there appears to be a
lot of oil around the exhaust cam looking in through the filler cap when its running, there is a valve of some sort fitted to the head where the oil
way lines up with the block and I have noticed the oil pressure seems high as it never goes below 50 psi even when ticking over and is 70psi at normal
road speeds so wondered if that was related .
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by zetec7
As someone else pointed out, the oil has to be getting into that cylinder from the bottom up (pas the oil control ring), or from the top down (past
the guide seal).
If there's no breather tract running oil fumes in with the air/fuel mixture (in which case, all 4 cylinders would get it, then these are the
only possibilities. Either the oil control ring is bad (or the bore has a wide spot), or maybe the guide seal didn't seat properly, or is
faulty. The good new is, the list of culprits is agreeably short!!
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paulf
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| posted on 22/7/08 at 07:51 PM |
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I got enough enthusiasm to have another look tonight and removed the cam cover.When i turned it on the starter a jet of oil about 3mm dia shot out of
the airbleed hole and about 8 inches into the air and over into the oter side of the cylinder head. Im sure that this much oil should not come out of
this if its an air bleed hole so think i need to remove the valve and investigate it further.
Has anyone else ran a zetec with the cam cover off to see the oil flow?
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by robocog
"The cylinder head is provided with two oil
galleries, one on the inlet side and one on the exhaust, to ensure constant oil supply to the camshaft bearings and hydraulic tappets. A retaining
valve (inserted into the cylinder head’s top surface, in the middle, on the inlet side) prevents these galleries from being drained when the engine is
switched off. The valve incorporates a ventilation hole in its upper end, to allow air bubbles to escape from the system when the engine is
restarted.
While the crankshaft and camshaft
bearings and the hydraulic tappets receive a
pressurised supply, the camshaft lobes and
valves are lubricated by splash, as are all
other engine components"
From my PDF Haynes manual (Mondeo MK1)
If the manual is any good to you I can always pop it somewhere public and send you a link..
Regards
Rob
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paulf
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| posted on 22/7/08 at 08:12 PM |
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That might mean that I havent found the cause then, although on my old head it is just a pin hole in the casting and I dont remember it jetting out
oil as im sure I tried the same in the past on the old engine.The amount looks enough to flood the inlet side of the engine as it was only turning on
the starter and was a large amount rather than the small dribble that you would expect from an air bleed.
It looks as if I need to remove the inlet cam and then remove it with a self taper and a slide hammer.I think it was an addition on phase 2 engines,
the early engine just had a hole about 1mm dia in the casting.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by robocog
yup foolishly I did just after polishing the car
Mine did the same and I also wondered if it was that causing my lack of pressure..
Hope it didn't make as much mess as it did on mine 
Regards
Rob
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paulf
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| posted on 22/7/08 at 09:03 PM |
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Thanks Rob I wont get around to removing it until friday as im working 12 hour shifts till then.Mine was just turnng on the starter so i was suprised
how much came out, im sure last time i tried it the followers just splashed a bit of oil around the cam area.
I am going to order a new valve to make sure I have a replacement and to see how it is retained.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by robocog
Paul before you do remove it
I'll try and video mine doing it so we can compare notes but what you describe sounds like what mine did (though I was stupid enough to do it
when the oil had warmed up and actually allowed it to run)
I only did it to see if I could see a sticking tappet
Shame its gone a bit too dark and the mossies are out otherwise I'd do it now
Regards
Rob
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whitestu
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 07:09 PM |
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I've run my blacktop with the cam cover off and it doesn't spray oil up at all - at least not beyond the camshafts.
stu
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paulf
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 07:18 PM |
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Thanks for that Rob
Mine squirts out much more oil than that, just a short spin on the starter ended up with oil all over the exhaust side of the head and in the plug
wells.Im going to have another look in a while and am considering trying to plug it with something for a trial.
Paul.
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zetec
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| posted on 23/7/08 at 08:57 PM |
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When I stripped my engine in the winter I managed to break a piston ring by accident. I was being very carefull and used a ring compressor. I noticed
a small piece of metal no more than a few thou thick covered in assembly grease on the bore ridge, only found it when cleaing the block before fitting
the head, as said hardly anything to look at and easily missed. Turned out it was from one of the rings. I suspect if I had not noticed it compression
would have been OK but oil would have been forced passed it and it would have got worst as the bore got scratched. 
" I only registered to look at the pictures, now I'm stuck with this username for the rest of my life!"
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