grazzledazzle
|
| posted on 24/9/08 at 08:05 AM |
|
|
Bike TB sizes - not what you think....
Does anyone know of any shallow tbs ie think of them sat on top of a v6 pointing upwards with limited room above for a plenum / filter
arrangement.
Was thinking of using jenveys but costs and size are limiting this a bit!
I saw claretoo's tb set up on the mazda v6 and it got me thinking....
|
|
|
|
|
Myke 2463
|
| posted on 24/9/08 at 08:28 AM |
|
|
TB's
Dont know if this wil help, GSXR 600 very compact, looking down the throat only 85mm and approx 140 high inc injectors.
Mike.
|
|
|
hughpinder
|
| posted on 24/9/08 at 09:35 AM |
|
|
But don't forget there is a minimum distance between valve centre and butterfly and butterfly to trumpet if you want to tune it properly. The
jenvey site is quire useful as it has info on that sort of thing. iirc for road car engine rpm you need about 200mm for each of the above.
Regards
Hugh
|
|
|
grazzledazzle
|
| posted on 24/9/08 at 01:58 PM |
|
|
Yeah you are right i had forgotten that. Will take another look at the jenveys and their inlet mainfold.
|
|
|
SPYDER
|
| posted on 24/9/08 at 03:40 PM |
|
|
If its a V6 engine you will need two sets of TBs from something like a Triumph triple.
There was a Mazda V6 engined Fury at Stafford show with just such a setup. Very neat with short carbon trumpets and a carbon airbox. Management was
by Megasquirt. This could be the one you refer to.
Sounded superb!!
There had been some mapping issues I believe.
On a larger V6 they should be more amenable I would think. I can't remember what size they were.
If its a BIG V6 then you could try three sets of TBs from an Aprilia RSV, mounted crosswise. This would take care of the port spacing problem. And
they shouldn't be too expensive, especially when compared to Jenvey prices. They are 48mm IIRC.
Straight off one 60 degree V6 onto another!!
And don't worry about inlet tract lengths. They mount virtually straight to the head on the Aprilia.
Or consider a similar setup using Suzuki TL units. Some of these have twin injectors, I believe.
Food for thought, hopefully.
Geoff
[Edited on 24/9/08 by SPYDER]
|
|
|
zilspeed
|
| posted on 24/9/08 at 05:28 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by SPYDER
If its a V6 engine you will need two sets of TBs from something like a Triumph triple.
There was a Mazda V6 engined Fury at Stafford show with just such a setup. Very neat with short carbon trumpets and a carbon airbox. Management was
by Megasquirt. This could be the one you refer to.
Sounded superb!!
There had been some mapping issues I believe.
On a larger V6 they should be more amenable I would think. I can't remember what size they were.
If its a BIG V6 then you could try three sets of TBs from an Aprilia RSV, mounted crosswise. This would take care of the port spacing problem. And
they shouldn't be too expensive, especially when compared to Jenvey prices. They are 48mm IIRC.
Straight off one 60 degree V6 onto another!!
And don't worry about inlet tract lengths. They mount virtually straight to the head on the Aprilia.
Or consider a similar setup using Suzuki TL units. Some of these have twin injectors, I believe.
Food for thought, hopefully.
Geoff
[Edited on 24/9/08 by SPYDER]
For a small V6, you could use 1 1/2 sets of 4 cylinder bike ones. 2-2-2 rather than 3-3.
A small displacement V6 on throttle bodies is quite an attractive thought actually.
Just as a reminder, here's a Rover KV6 on throttle bodies.
Les Mutch in the Dax KV6 at Doune
|
|
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 24/9/08 at 06:24 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
quote:
Originally posted by SPYDER
If its a V6 engine you will need two sets of TBs from something like a Triumph triple.
There was a Mazda V6 engined Fury at Stafford show with just such a setup. Very neat with short carbon trumpets and a carbon airbox. Management was
by Megasquirt. This could be the one you refer to.
Sounded superb!!
There had been some mapping issues I believe.
On a larger V6 they should be more amenable I would think. I can't remember what size they were.
If its a BIG V6 then you could try three sets of TBs from an Aprilia RSV, mounted crosswise. This would take care of the port spacing problem. And
they shouldn't be too expensive, especially when compared to Jenvey prices. They are 48mm IIRC.
Straight off one 60 degree V6 onto another!!
And don't worry about inlet tract lengths. They mount virtually straight to the head on the Aprilia.
Or consider a similar setup using Suzuki TL units. Some of these have twin injectors, I believe.
Food for thought, hopefully.
Geoff
[Edited on 24/9/08 by SPYDER]
For a small V6, you could use 1 1/2 sets of 4 cylinder bike ones. 2-2-2 rather than 3-3.
A small displacement V6 on throttle bodies is quite an attractive thought actually.
Just as a reminder, here's a Rover KV6 on throttle bodies.
Les Mutch in the Dax KV6 at Doune
That's my baby - and I'm beginning to wonder if the mapping problems are down to the size of the TB`s (6 40`s on a 1.8 ?) - or my lack of
mapping skill 
The main reason for using the Triumph bodies is that they are very compact , but they could do with being a bit shorter .
[img][/img]
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
SPYDER
|
| posted on 24/9/08 at 06:41 PM |
|
|
There are several sets of Aprilia TBs on fleabay as I type. No bids on any. £10 - £20. Go and look at the pics. The outlet throats are angled outward
to suit the Vee engine. They look just the ticket!
Geoff
|
|
|
grazzledazzle
|
| posted on 24/9/08 at 08:52 PM |
|
|
Those aprilas look just the ticket!
it's on a 2.5 ford duratec st200.
|
|
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 24/9/08 at 09:00 PM |
|
|
I can see a few problems with those Aprillia TB's - one being that the butterflies will side-on to the ports (I believe your engine has two
inlet ports per cylinder , this would bias the flow to just one ?) , and with them being very close together and angled you will need a longish
manifold to connect to the head which may add a bit of height ?
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
SPYDER
|
| posted on 25/9/08 at 04:44 PM |
|
|
Have a look at Suzuki TL ones. They are individual IIRC.
Geoff.
|
|
|
grazzledazzle
|
| posted on 25/9/08 at 08:33 PM |
|
|
Just been through 244 sets of tbs on ebay, my brain hurts...
Claretoo could you measure the distance from your manifold mounting plate to top of your trumpet if you get chance?
|
|
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 27/9/08 at 08:15 PM |
|
|
Yep - can do - sorry about the delay , I forgot where this thread was and couldn't find it
Just to throw another idea out there , here is a KLDE V6 (same engine I just bought for mine)in an Mx5 on GSXR600 throttle bodies (makes 180hp at the
wheels  )
 
KL V6 on ITB's
oops..........that should read GSXR1000 TB's
[Edited on 28/9/08 by clairetoo]
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
grazzledazzle
|
| posted on 28/9/08 at 07:45 PM |
|
|
cheers clarertoo, i'm too-ing and fro-ing with this one...
Do you have any more links or pics to that install above, would be interested to see how it's been done.
I'm also a bit concerned about the on / off throttle response / need for a cam system.... more work!
|
|
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 28/9/08 at 07:56 PM |
|
|
Sorry I dont have any more info - but here are a couple of vidio's of what other's are doing 
linky 1
linky 2
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
grazzledazzle
|
| posted on 29/9/08 at 02:04 PM |
|
|
Well I've just had a quote for
6no Jenvey tb's
2 no inlet manifolds
2 no fuel rails
6 no trumpets
1 linkage setup
(ie still more stuff to buy)
£1700
If i'm doing this it's bike tbs then!
|
|
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 29/9/08 at 04:57 PM |
|
|
My cost for the same .....
2 set's of Triumph TB's = £65
1 length of ally fuel rail = £35
2 bike throttle cables = £12.70
6 carbon bellmouth's = approx 1/2 metre of carbon mat + small quantity of resin (about £30 including the ally to turn the former)
Doing it all myself = priceless 
Oh , and I've just measured the TB's - from the adapter plate to the top of the trumpets is about 145mm .
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
grazzledazzle
|
| posted on 29/9/08 at 08:05 PM |
|
|
Thanks mate. Much appreciated.
If i do this route i think the problem will be getting the manifolds to mount to the head and adapt to the tb shape in as short a distance as
possible.
Still thinking... What is everyone using for fuel rails on respaced bodies?
|
|
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 29/9/08 at 08:20 PM |
|
|
One good thing about the Triumph `bodies is they are allready `port shaped` and have a bolt-on flange , so just an adapter plate needed
Foe fuel rail I used some billet stuff from Ross Machine Racing - even with the postage from the
states it was still cheaper than buying it here
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
martyn_16v
|
| posted on 29/9/08 at 08:44 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
Foe fuel rail I used some billet stuff from Ross Machine Racing - even with the postage from the
states it was still cheaper than buying it here
I've used the same stuff. I tried to order it from a UK supplier at first (americanv8engines) but after completing the sale off his website he
then decided he wanted more in postage than RMR did I was not a happy bunny. Ordered it direct in the end and it turned up in 2 days at less than
half the price...
Even so, once I've added up the cost of the fittings from speedflow, and the tap I had to buy to run a thread for the fittings, it would have
ben cheaper to buy a custom rail from Jenvey
|
|
|
martyn_16v
|
| posted on 29/9/08 at 08:47 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
 
Engine from above
Where did you pick up the fittings for the ends of the fuel rail, and what size thread are they?
|
|
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 29/9/08 at 09:00 PM |
|
|
The fittings are just 1/4 bspt / 8mm hose tails from work
The bore of the fuel rail is a bit big , but I've `stuck` them in with a good thread lock'n'seal and no problems or leaks
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
martyn_16v
|
| posted on 30/9/08 at 08:12 AM |
|
|
Aah. I went for M14x1.5 as it's the closest size to tap into the 1/2" bore, but it meant I then needed adaptors and all sorts
|
|
|
grazzledazzle
|
| posted on 30/9/08 at 07:04 PM |
|
|
Anyone any idea where the injector is here? Is it firing into the tb?!
They look ideal in terms of height and look as though linkage would be do-able. Downside ducati 748s so not cheap.
Claretoo, do you know the exact model your came from?
|
|
|
clairetoo
|
| posted on 30/9/08 at 07:16 PM |
|
|
Look's like the injecters are squirting straight into the bellmouth's - great for mid range/top end , but may be a bit interesting
starting or low revs/light throttle .
Mine are the same as
these (later
one's are a block of three rather than separate `bodies )
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
|
|
|
