looking to be building a single seat mid engined car (probably looking like a radically altered anorexic se7en style car)

looked into using sierra IRS with an 6-8" propshaft from diff to g-box, is this feasable or will it be (from my doodles anyway) way too long looking??? (compared to the length of a se7en / Locost)

If it isnt, then are there any available transaxles to suit a ford engine (cvh / V6)???

if this still is a non starter, then what liquid cooled engine / transaxle combinations are commonly available in the UK???

(building on a budget, so no porche or ferrari suggestions please)

should have mentioned i want an inline engine, (formula 1 style layout, kind of)

Eddie if you must go inline then VW is probably your best bet, with an adapter...or a cheap?..ex FF hewland box

I agree the short prop route will make a LONG car...

I (and others) are going the transverse route...tons of cheap ex FWD powertrains.....and a very compact unit...


Good luck and keep us informed.......


Alan

http://www.desicodesign.com/meerkat/

I agree with Alan. When you lay out all your parts end to end, you'll see you're going to have a very long car. As Alan said, it's far better to just use a readily available FWD drivetrain, and you have the whole solution immediately. There's tons of possibilites out there with lots of power...

I'm partial to Honda and is what I'm using in my mid-engine Mini. Nissan has some very nice FWD setups too. Of course the older the drivetrain, the cheaper it is. Just "dial up" your budget.

[Edited on 22/4/03 by kb58]

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan B
Eddie if you must go inline then VW is probably your best bet, with an adapter...or a cheap?..ex FF hewland box

I agree the short prop route will make a LONG car...

I (and others) are going the transverse route...tons of cheap ex FWD powertrains.....and a very compact unit...


Good luck and keep us informed.......


Alan

http://www.desicodesign.com/meerkat/

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Eddie,

I'll add another vote along with Alan and kb58 for a transverse layout. There are hundreds of options available and the end result will be MUCH shorter.

Go to Peter Ogden's wonderful Locost 7 data page (Link) and download the article on the Ox7. It's a clubman style car with an inline mid-engien and (to my eyes at least) the proportions are all wrong. Here's a small image to give you the idea:

If you insist on going inline, look at older SAAB's, Renault's, and Audi's most of which have inline FWD drivetrains. In fact the Lotus Europa used a Renault drivetrain in a mid-engine format all those years ago.

Hope this is helpful,

Dominic
Brisbane, Australia
http://www.DIYSportsCar.org

Delorian used a renault transaxle, in fact they used the PRV (Peugeot-Renault-Volvo) v6 turbo motor complete too. There'll be a load of waffle about uni1's in the archives here too .
Ive shied away from older vw transaxles as fitted to beetles and bay window bus's because they seem to require vast quantity of strengthening to stand serious abuse above about 140bhp.. I do have a earlier swingaxle vw box with a ford adaptor kit, but it involved changing the first motion shaft to one that fitted the ford flywheel, ive got a cvh 1600 out of a orion hung on it at the moment and im keeping it round to build a buggy from that wont need lots of power, so unfortunatly its not for sale!
I think the vw poster means the later fwd motors though..
Also a option is a audi transaxle which are usually cheap and cheerful, but you may struggle finding a adaptor plate for a ford motor unless you plan on making your own.
I like mid engine longitudinal motors because, well, it makes it easy to get at everything if you have a bodyshell you can flip off...

toodles

thanks guys, by Vee Dub, are we talking beetle? ugly things that they are, they are the only vw's with the setup i can think of,

if so what VW cars will mate to the T/axle that had proper engines (liquid cooled, and dont sound like a sewing machine)

like the sound of the 6 speed units, any websites worth looking at???

Audi sounds good as well, still looking into suspension arrangements,

i get the feeling, this is going to become one of those that evolves as i build....

now where did i put that doodle book.....

I was meaning beetles in terms of transaxles....they have been mated to just about every egine every made (well a lot at least)...

http://www.kennedyeng.com/ adapters


http://www.fortinracing.com/transaxles.html HD transaxles (NOT cheap)


HTH

Also, this one:

http://www.heckermachine.com/new.pages/motorsports.html

Don't forget the 215Ci Alum V8 Buick is of course AKA Rover....:-)

As was mentioned they do need some work if serious abuse is intended, but the weak areas are well known and fixes have been developed....


Still prefer transverse myself though....:d

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I like mid engine longitudinal motors because, well, it makes it easy to get at everything if you have a bodyshell you can flip off...toodles

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VW boxes are used for several sports racing cars with hewland internals, a friend uses this layout on his Lola with a beetle gearbox casing, 4 speeds + 2ltr 16v vauxhall mounted inline.

I also remember hearing from Jeremny Clarkson on Top Gear that the Lotus Esprit still uses a renault gearbox for it's inline engine.

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I also remember hearing from Jeremny Clarkson on Top Gear that the Lotus Esprit still uses a renault gearbox for it's inline engine.

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I agree, the esprit is a classic, popup headlights and everything. a renault 21 transaxle if i remember correctly?

They killed the cosworth and now the esprit, different cars, but both classics. the poxy focus rs isn't a good enough replacement for the cossie. only 210 odd bhp, where are we to get stupidly tunable and cheap engines from in ten years time!!

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I respect your opinion, and God know how opinionated us builders are, but I don't see a longitudinal layout as being superior in any way (unless you're building an F1 car.) Any mid-engine car using a transverse ex-FWD drivetrain will also have a flip up cover. It's just as easy to get to stuff... well, maybe 90% as easy. Visually it saves *feet* in terms of wheelbase, but to each his own.

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Hehe its more of a personal thing, I absolutely hate working on cars in confined spaces, and the nicest cars to work on I have had has been a moggie minor with flip front, and a v8 ford pop again with a flip front, I did have a mini with a flip front but there were bits on that which access to was awkward at times. Ill go the extra mile for that 10%
I agree that it can make the car visually a bit long but Im not using a locost inspired body, Im reworking my nova kitcar which is stretched lengthways anyway from its pinto days. In fact if I move the rear arch back, I could probally shorten the car and still have the layout..Of course we're opinionated, otherwise we'd just accept some manufacturers mass produced offering served up to us like good little sheep wouldnt we

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Alan B - 30/4/03 at 01:19 PM

Mr F

Don't you guys have a phrase?

"Vive la difference"....or something like that..

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Noodle - 30/4/03 at 02:32 PM

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but I don't see a longitudinal layout as being superior in any way

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If one was to be pedantic, one could always point out that an inline engine with it's crank running along the centre line of the car has inherently better NVH properties than a transverse one as well as better weight distribution across the car.

But of course, that would be pedantic.


Neil.

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Alan B - 30/4/03 at 03:12 PM

Mr Noodle....I wouldn't argue with that....(In fact I couldn't without some research.....)

BUT, which of us on here is really concerned with NVH.....?

Still, it's all good chat....

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GO - 30/4/03 at 03:29 PM

NVH???

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Noodle - 30/4/03 at 03:33 PM

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BUT, which of us on here is really concerned with NVH.....

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Not me

I suppose if one were to continue along a thread of pedantricity (I've just made that word up. And I like it.) one could argue that an inline mid-engined vehicle would keep a greater proportion of it's weight (assuming the engine constituted a major proportion) within the wheelbase too. A transverse motor would be more likely to concentrate weight over the rear axle line giving a greater polar moment.

As an aside, you'd have to have a proper 'straight' motor for best NVH. None of these hairy V's with their lateral forces. I shudder when manufacturers turn from straight 6's to Vee's. The smell of front wheel drive can't be far away...

I've just made (most of) that up. Please, anyone feel free to flame me

Neil.

Eddie: What about a FWD Subaru box? They're inline and strong. Some Italian car was using one recently with a n/a 2.5 Legacy flat-four. Flat four? NVH? Pah! Still, I like 'em.

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Alan B - 30/4/03 at 03:38 PM

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Originally posted by GO
NVH???

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Noise, vibration and harshness

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GO - 30/4/03 at 04:33 PM

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Noise, vibration and harshness

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Oh, ok. Thats why I didn't know what it meant, NVH is all part of the fun of a raw sports car surely!!

Noodle, I agree with what you're saying about an inline having the weight more central between the wheels, as opposed to a tranverse (at either end) which puts the weight almost directly on top of the axel.

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kb58 - 1/5/03 at 01:04 AM

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...I absolutely hate working on cars in confined spaces, and the nicest cars to work on I have had has been a moggie minor with flip front, and a v8 ford pop again with a flip front, I did have a mini with a flip front but there were bits on that which access to was awkward at times...

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Nah! Look at this link. It shows the room around the engine I'm using in my project. Plenty of room.
http://members.cox.net/kimini22/car/diary3/rear1.jpg

and

http://members.cox.net/kimini22/car/diary3/side1.jpg

There's tons of room around it. Seems like you're thinking of how little room there is around a FWD drivetrain in it's stock location. While true, that's not your problem anymore because you're putting the drivetrain into something where you can free it up and have tons of space. I still say, "not a problem, and so much easier."

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