. I'm only going MS because its the most affordable option.
Having recently decided that BEC is not an economic option, I have decided to go for a blacktop zetec with bike tb's running MS.
So my question is, How much of a ball ache is it to get an engine running on MS?
I have NO experience with this type of technology, as most of my engine experience has been 2 stroke motorbikes and quads? Oh and mechanical injection
diesels (tractors)
Cheers Guys Jas Gray
[Edited on 18/6/09 by Jasongray5]
for everyone who recommends it/uses it, do a search on their posts in the past and see how many are on MS ballaches .
I'm only going MS because its the most affordable option.
I needed quite a bit of help with mine (thanks Claire! 
) but I do understand it a bit better now. If you do lots of reading, research etc then
it's all achieveable
I spoke to Phil at ExtraEFI, he seems to know the thing inside out. He thinks matching it to my 24V BOB engine would be easy and he can supply it with
an initial map.
Costs a bit more at £300 but that is fully built and mapped which will save me weeks of hair pulling.
Cheers
Colin
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/
Ms is ok, as long as you've got a common engine, then most peoples base maps will be availible if you ask.
I've a Ms'd blacktop on GSX-R 1000 bodies, I'll send you the map when you need it.
ATB Dan
quote:
Originally posted by GrumpyOne
I spoke to Phil at ExtraEFI, he seems to know the thing inside out. He thinks matching it to my 24V BOB engine would be easy and he can supply it with an initial map.
Costs a bit more at £300 but that is fully built and mapped which will save me weeks of hair pulling.
Cheers
Colin
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/
Not fully mapped but enough to get the car up and running, then it is up to me to do the rest.
But he does recon to have a initial MS map for just about every engine, he is very interesting man to speak to. I told him what I wanted and sent him
a wiring diagram of all the sensors. He told me it would be reasonably easy to build for me and he would map it to get the engine going.
I have no idea how these things would go together from a kit, buying ready built is a bonus for me, and having it mapped to get the engine started is
another bonus.
Cheers
Colin
[Edited on 18/6/09 by GrumpyOne]
[Edited on 18/6/09 by GrumpyOne]
phill offers a mapping service to get it up and running but its about £100 for the morning i think, im sure it says on his website somewhere.
if you know absolutely nothing about MS then it will take you a bit of time to understand how it works. once you have the basics and the constants are
set correctly then its pretty straight forward.
He has stopped doing tuning etc now, bit far for me to go anyway
I know sod all about this type of thing so I thought buying it built with a map already in it was a good deal, and better than trying to work it out
myself.
Cheers
Colin
you more than likely wont be able to drive on the map that is installed on the ecu when you buy it, it will only have the basic constants on and they
will need tuning to close to perfect values, it with have a generic spark table on it and the fuel table will most certainly need tuning through
datalogging. you will be able to get the engine started with a little tweaking of the values but you won't be able to put the engine under any
major load, say about 2000 revs. if your thinking its a case of uploading a map onto the MS and driving away, im afraid you'll be sadly
mistaken
every engine is different in little ways, my pinto isn't the same as the next man's so uploading my map to his would be pointless if you see
what i mean,
what set up are you going for? ~(give as much detail as possible)
[Edited on 18/6/09 by omega0684]
quote:
Originally posted by scutter
Ms is ok, as long as you've got a common engine, then most peoples base maps will be availible if you ask.
Alex, would you say datalogging is better than live mapping? I was hoping to use live mapping with my dad you see and thought it might be more straightforward.
I am going to keep it bog standard using the injection system already on it with the EDIS 6 coil pack. I am having the engine rebuilt but just back to
standard.
Does this help, and can you tell I am going to need help
Cheers
Colin
Rescued attachment obd.gif
live mapping works well, if your eyes and brain are fast enough to take in all the information on the screen and then interpret it. you have to look
at the AFR gauge and the map at the same time, listen for when the engine is struggling, running weak and talking to the driver, its not as easy as it
sounds.
datalogging allows you to go out and have a drive in a car that is drivable. i did manual tuning to get the car drivable up to about 4000rpm and then
switched to datalogging, i had a drivable car after about 4/5 runs out, the more you datalog the more fine tuning Megalog Viewer will do, you can also
review the datalog and pause it at anystage to analyse what is happening and then you can make changes yourself so you know what your are doing will
improve the cars performance,
i have heard mixed reports about autotune, some say that it just makes a bad situation worse, others have said the opposite, i think that autotune is
best used when you think you are not far off a good map. to just fine tune as it were, you can't expect autotune to do it for you, it just
doesn't work that well
Is it possible once you have it running on a base map to connect the AFR LC1) and laptop then drive around until it sets itself up?
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Is it possible once you have it running on a base map to connect the AFR LC1) and laptop then drive around until it sets itself up?
MS isn't easy, but neither is it black magic. If you take the time to read the documentation, and ask questions, you'll get there in the
end, and you'll have learned a hell of a lot about how engines work.
It is a lot to take in at once, but then so is building a whole car, and we're all managing it. break it down into smaller areas. I found it
massively helpful when I first started to print out the wiring diagram, and then look at each sensor and subsystem one at a time, find out what it
does, why you need it, and what effect it causes.
There is always the temptation to look at the features available with MS and go straight in at the deep end with as many toys as you can. Again, keep
it simple. If at all possible, start out just controlling the fuelling and as little else as possible. Once you're up and running with that,
start adding the extras.
Tunung is a similar process, start with the basics and move on from there. You can't expect to just download a map from someone and go tearing
off, if you're lucky it'll run OK at best. Start off just getting it to start and idle. Once it does that reasonably well move on to the
next step, start working up the revs with no load. One thing at a time. It isn't difficult to build a map entirely from scratch, it just takes
time and care. Autotune is a great, but it isn't a substitute for a bit of thinking, just a tool to cut out some of the donkey work once
you've done the basics.
The trouble as MS has become more well known is that people see it as simply a cheap alternative for a commercial engine management solution (e.g.
Emerald), and it simply isn't. You save money because you have to supply the hard work, but that was always the intention of the project,
it's as much an educational process as it is an end product. I'm not saying no-one has any problems with MS, it's by no means perfect.
But there's a big support base and the developers take an interest in odd installations, so if you do happen to find a problem MS can't deal
with, someone will more often than not be willing to help get you going. The people that tend to give up (and then whinge quite vocally about how
it's crap) are the ones that were wrongly expecting it to be a plug and play - download a map for my engine and of we go kind of job.
Hopefully I haven't put you off. It is hard work, but very rewarding, and a tinkerers dream