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Full Beam Flash/Full Beam Dipped Beam
mikeb - 7/8/14 at 10:15 AM

I spend some time sorting out my lighting circuit.
Long story short is my loom is set up for switch positive relays (theres a relay for each of the three light circuits), I used some Mk1 sierra stalks and have got everything working.

I've got dominator headlights with standard h4 bulbs.

Currently if you switch full beam on the dipped beam stays on to. (I couldn't see in the IVA manual where it says anything against this)

I do have an unused pin on the dipped/main beam switch (there are four pins, 12v Perm for full beam flash, 12v switched from side light switch this only lets the full beam come on when side lights etc are on, signal to the full beam relay, then a spare which according to early sierra wiring went to the dipped beam relay).

So I guessing if I need to have the dipped beams turn off when full beam is on its something to do with this spare pin.

I'm hoping I don't need to worry about it!

[Edited on 7/8/14 by mikeb]

adithorp - 7/8/14 at 10:48 AM

You don't want the dip and main on together with H4 bulbs. Both filaments on will overheat them and lead to short lifetime.

I'd connect your main swithch to a change-over relay. So your dipped feed switches the headlights on and the main beam just diverts the feed to dip or main.

coozer - 7/8/14 at 11:44 AM

Side light circuit is independent of the main and full beam.

Its the switch that controls the function meaning you have to go through the side light circuit which remains on to get at the main beam. Then again the stalk switches between main and full when you push for and aft.

I chuncked the stalk and put two switches on the dash, one for side and one for the main. This meant I could switch the headlights on with the sides off.

So, you should have two relays in the circuit, one for dipped and one for main. Then the stalk simply sends the voltage down the wire depending on which function position the stalk is in. No relay required for the side, unless you want to that is.

So, two relays, each one feeds into two fuses, with one wire going to each headlight either side.

The side is seperate and should have a permanent feed whereas as the main circuit is from back switched live.

Hope that helps,
Steve

mikeb - 7/8/14 at 11:52 AM

I can see that would work nicely and probably how I'd do it if I was making the loom up. I'd prefer not to change too much though.

how about this the Forth pin the sierra main beam switch according to the the haynes manual went to a dipped beam relay (noting teh main light circuit were not on relays just direct wired)

I think this pin is 12v when there is no main beam or flash main beam selected, it then drops to zero when either are selected.



[Edited on 7/8/14 by mikeb]

mikeb - 7/8/14 at 12:21 PM

Hi Steve does this mean you can choose to have both dipped and main beam on? i.e. if you turn both your switches on they will both come on?

My wiring loom came with three relays one for each circuit side,dipped, main.


[Edited on 7/8/14 by mikeb]

mikeb - 7/8/14 at 12:40 PM

Right think I've sorted it.

I'm using the right hand stalk to provide the signal to the dipped relay directly and also the bridged 12v feed to the left hand stalk.
If I simply take away the signal feed from the RHD stalk to the dipped relay and use my mysterious 4th pin on the LHD stalk as the dipped signal feed all will work as needed.

As per this http://locostbuilders.co.uk/gallery/Wiring%20schematic.jpg

So no additional relays or more wiring, fingers crossed

coozer - 7/8/14 at 05:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mikeb
Hi Steve does this mean you can choose to have both dipped and main beam on? i.e. if you turn both your switches on they will both come on?

My wiring loom came with three relays one for each circuit side,dipped, main.


[Edited on 7/8/14 by mikeb]


No mate, the indictor stalk switches the dip and main. So the switch on the dash sends the live to the stalk and you pick main or dip with that.

Do you want to see the wiring diagram from the Sierra?

snowy2 - 7/8/14 at 06:32 PM

Your only allowed two dip beams and 4 main beams for the IVA.
you cannot have both dip and mains on as a switch option only as a momentary "flash" option.

gremlin1234 - 7/8/14 at 08:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by snowy2
Your only allowed two dip beams and 4 main beams for the IVA.
you cannot have both dip and mains on as a switch option only as a momentary "flash" option.

there is nothing in the iva manual saying you cannot leave dip on while beam is on, indeed for certain types of lights, (gas discharge) it is required, unless documentary evidence shows they meet the technical requirements. - but as stated, common halogen bulbs will quickly overheat.

also two lights in close arrangement, are considered as one light.
see fig 4, section 20, installation of lights

The Black Flash - 7/8/14 at 10:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by snowy2
Your only allowed two dip beams and 4 main beams for the IVA.
you cannot have both dip and mains on as a switch option only as a momentary "flash" option.


Yes you can...my dips and main are in separate units, but I specifically wired them so that the dips remain on when the mains come on. No problem at IVA and the manual doesn't mention it.
In fact the requirements for main beams are very few - pretty much that they only shine forwards, that's about it.

gremlin1234 - 7/8/14 at 11:25 PM

quote:

in fact the requirements for main beams are very few - pretty much that they only shine forwards, that's about it.
and a telltail (preferably blue) is shown on the dash.

snowy2 - 8/8/14 at 05:53 AM

My mistake in choice of words....the C+U regs require that the headlights dip or move the reflector so the beam is deflected to not dazzle on comming traffic. Some gas discharge lamps do this by a moving bulb deflector.
But you cannot have both main and dip on at the same time. It must be either or.

snowy2 - 8/8/14 at 06:05 AM

Therefore the fact that the IVA doesnt cover it does not necessarily mean it allowed. Technically gas discharge lights are not allowed under C+U regs however European laws do allow them.
The c+u regs also need to be complied with as well as iva.
Some police forces will prosecute car drivers who have multipe dip beams or cars that dazzle oncoming traffic. (Been pulled myself for that very offence)

snowy2 - 8/8/14 at 06:22 AM

Here is a link to another forum I use wich gives some insight to the issues here .....it is moderated by magistrates and traffic police.
5ive-o forum

The Black Flash - 8/8/14 at 02:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by snowy2
My mistake in choice of words....the C+U regs require that the headlights dip or move the reflector so the beam is deflected to not dazzle on comming traffic. Some gas discharge lamps do this by a moving bulb deflector.
But you cannot have both main and dip on at the same time. It must be either or.


Can't find anything saying that, do you have a link?

Vehicle Lighting Regs say:
"10. Electrical connections–

(a) Every main-beam headlamp shall be so constructed that the light emitted therefrom–

(i)can be deflected at the will of the driver to become a dipped beam, or
(ii)can be extinguished by the operation of a device which at the same time either–
(A)causes the lamp to emit a dipped beam, or
(B)causes another lamp to emit a dipped beam."

I can find nothing to say "thou shalt not have dips and mains on at the same time".

daviep - 8/8/14 at 06:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by snowy2
My mistake in choice of words....the C+U regs require that the headlights dip or move the reflector so the beam is deflected to not dazzle on comming traffic. Some gas discharge lamps do this by a moving bulb deflector.
But you cannot have both main and dip on at the same time. It must be either or.


My Discovery and my Merc Sprinter dipped beam remains on along with full beam, so either something has changed recently or you are slightly confused.

Regards
Davie