I'm back from uni and have finally got time to build I searched for this for a while on this forum but all the diagrams showing this setup on the motorcraft amp had different coloured wires coming from it. I have recently fitted my wiring loom and got it all setup so that the engine is turning over, fuel supply is sorted. Only problem is i'm not getting any sparks. Diagram attached showing the way i've wired up the coil, amplifier, dizzy etc...

Anyone know why it's not sparking? I have the correct dizzy (as I spoke to burton power and ordered the right type) Maybe it's the way the loom is connected :S

Thanks for any help

Attachment:

Hi Benzine,

This diagram works- I know as that's how I did my engine and it runs.



This Ignition Wiring Works!

Look in my photo archive at the Amps and dizzys:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=gal&user=James&folder=Ignition

You need Amp 'A' and Dizzy 'A'.

If you've done all this and it still doesn't work then something's knackered!

Good luck, hope that helps,

James

Thanks James. I tried using that diagram from an older thread but the different colours confused me I think it must be the way i'm wiring in the loom to the dizzy/coil/amp setup

As far as i know you dont have a wire from the amp to the solenoid (i assume you mean starter solenoid).

My amp had different colours. It was from injected Pinto and definitely no good for a carb set-up. Make sure you have the bits referred to in James threads / photos.

Injected pinto amp needs trigger signal from crank sensor that is processed by the ECU. The injection setup dizzy is a hall effect one - ie electronic advance/retard. your burtons dizzy is probably mechanical advance but wont match up to a injected amp.
Watch out with the wire colours, the trigger wires are shielded and insulated, this means the actual wire colour to quote is inside.

My head hurts

Basically I have a 205 injection pinto. I bought it as an engine only with no other parts. I told burton i had a injection pinto that i wanted to run carbs on so that i would get the correct dizzy. So is it the amplifier? I got the amplifier from a single downdraught carb pinto from the scrappies. If so where could i get the correct one? (there were no injection pintos at the scrappies)

Thanks for any help

similar problem to me. i got an injected Pinto with dizzy, wiring loom etc but no injection kit. I have fitted 38DGAS and am now on the lookout for the right bits to convert the igntition. James' thread is an excellent source of info and photos.
Iam now after electronic dizzy and amp from 1.6 or 1.8 pinto, or from pre-'86 2.0 pinto (all carb versions). You are looking for dizzy with round plug on a flying lead (i think 2 wires) and the amp that goes with it.
My dizzy has a rectangular plug directly on the body with 3 connections - this is no good as it is the hall effect one and needs crank sensor, ecu etc etc.

The other option is to go for distibutorless ignition (EDIS4) powered by megajolt ecu. It has been done for £120 ish by other people.

Here is my thread on the dizzy subject
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=22738
that links and quotes James info. alarm bells were ringing in my head when you said you told Burtons you had a 2.o injected pinto. They may have shut down to the other data (ref carbs and no ecu etc) and supplied you with a replacement injected dizzy. I hope not. What plug does the new one have? (the advance mechanism on the originals is the round external vacuum one however i think th ebetter aftermarket ones are internal mechanical advance where the advance curve is factory set to a particular engine configuration before supply).

HTH,
Darren.


Having read your thread again - it sounds like your ampo is NG. Have you checked you have the right one (wire colours sound like it isnt). If you confirm it is correct i have been told that new ones are not that expensive and come with guarantee.

[Edited on 23/3/05 by DarrenW]

[Edited on 23/3/05 by DarrenW]

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Originally posted by DarrenW
What plug does the new one have?

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quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
Having read your thread again - it sounds like your ampo is NG. Have you checked you have the right one (wire colours sound like it isnt). If you confirm it is correct i have been told that new ones are not that expensive and come with guarantee.

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I have bad news for you im afraid - iam 95% certain that you have the wrong dizzy. my dizzy, albeit old and dirty is also the 3 connection rectangular plug one and it is definitely no good. I have heard that you can get engine to run with it but there is no advance / retard, it is a hall effect one that needs signal from ecu.

You need dizzy A in james photo, i bet yours looks like dizzy B with the plug as part of the dizzy body as opoosed to being on the end of the flying lead.

As for the amps i have amp B which is defo no good. Im looking for amp A(havent actually looked yet). Look in my thread for donors. If you already have amp A i dont think it will work with your dizzy anyway.

HTH - its bloody confusing at first. I was in denial for a while until i faced facts and accepted that my bits were crap and i have to spend money!

I have amp A so i think that's good. Thanks for the help...now to get onto burton

quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
I have bad news for you im afraid - iam 95% certain that you have the wrong dizzy. my dizzy, albeit old and dirty is also the 3 connection rectangular plug one and it is definitely no good. I have heard that you can get engine to run with it but there is no advance / retard, it is a hall effect one that needs signal from ecu.

You need dizzy A in james photo, i bet yours looks like dizzy B with the plug as part of the dizzy body as opoosed to being on the end of the flying lead.

As for the amps i have amp B which is defo no good. Im looking for amp A(havent actually looked yet). Look in my thread for donors. If you already have amp A i dont think it will work with your dizzy anyway.

HTH - its bloody confusing at first. I was in denial for a while until i faced facts and accepted that my bits were crap and i have to spend money!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Benzine
I have amp A so i think that's good. Thanks for the help...now to get onto burton

quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
I have bad news for you im afraid - iam 95% certain that you have the wrong dizzy. my dizzy, albeit old and dirty is also the 3 connection rectangular plug one and it is definitely no good. I have heard that you can get engine to run with it but there is no advance / retard, it is a hall effect one that needs signal from ecu.

You need dizzy A in james photo, i bet yours looks like dizzy B with the plug as part of the dizzy body as opoosed to being on the end of the flying lead.

As for the amps i have amp B which is defo no good. Im looking for amp A(havent actually looked yet). Look in my thread for donors. If you already have amp A i dont think it will work with your dizzy anyway.

HTH - its bloody confusing at first. I was in denial for a while until i faced facts and accepted that my bits were crap and i have to spend money!

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Did they tell you how to wire it up? Thats the key bit. If they did prey tell.

I have it on good authority that the dizzy with recatngular plug is from the later electronic ignition set up and wont work without a crank sensor trigger etc. Actually, slightly incorrect, it will work in a fashion but only correctly at tick-over or at full revs. Anything in between will be rough as you wont be feeding the hall effect with the signal it needs to adjust the advance.

Please tell me - what is the spec of your dizzy. It might be something to do with the ignitor bit. How much was it?

quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
Please tell me - what is the spec of your dizzy. It might be something to do with the ignitor bit. How much was it?

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Im sure the brown lead is earth. After that ill need to study the other threads again to suss out the wiring. If i get chance ill have a look tomorrow. Take a look and see if you can follow them.

I like the dizzys. There are a few possibilities there. Price is not so good. I might try to go 2nd hand for now. Post SVA project may well be megajolt so i dont want to spend much for now.

*kicks pinto into massive furnace*

Benzine,

Have you had a look at the other link that is running in parallel. Theyt are talking about how to wire up Aldon ignitor set up. Is this what your is? They have confirmed no black box needed and it sounds very easy indeed. I might consider this myself as it simlifies the wiring.

I can confirm that the ignitor system is a doddle to fit and wire up - it as also really neat (all contained within the dizzy cap)

I believe that you need a Bosch points dizzy to start with though. It is really a points replacement - the dizzy still provides mechanical advance with or without vacuum.


HTH

Mark

quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
Did they tell you how to wire it up? Thats the key bit. If they did prey tell.

I have it on good authority that the dizzy with recatngular plug is from the later electronic ignition set up and wont work without a crank sensor trigger etc. Actually, slightly incorrect, it will work in a fashion but only correctly at tick-over or at full revs. Anything in between will be rough as you wont be feeding the hall effect with the signal it needs to adjust the advance.

Please tell me - what is the spec of your dizzy. It might be something to do with the ignitor bit. How much was it?

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Here's the griff...I have taken out the motorcraft amplifier and used only the dizzy and coil: +ve dizzy to +ve coil, same with -ve, tacho on -ve coil, and what do you know...I get a spark I thought it was my eyes playing tricks but no, it's there

Now the engine seems really hard to turn over compared to before, should this be so? I'm just wanting to fire it up now but it seems to be struggling and I don't know why. From my digidash I'm getting a reading of 11.2 from the battery, is that normal?

Thanks for all the help everyone

quote:

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Originally posted by Benzine

quote:

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Originally posted by DarrenW
Please tell me - what is the spec of your dizzy. It might be something to do with the ignitor bit. How much was it?

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If you have a burton power catalogue it's on page 61 on the right hand side. It was pricey (over £200 for dizzy and coil) The older dizzy I had also had a rectangular plug and so does this new one i have (although on the new one the plug is mounted on a box and I can see an electric circuit board in there)

https://www.burtonpower.com/dets_product.aspx?App=SO&PGrp=08003&PSet=1
3rd down on the above link (old dizzy for exchange) I didn't get any wiring instructions but is it just me or on that picture is that lead going from the dizzy to the coil?

Edit: I've just looked in the burton catalogue and the brown wire appears to go to the +ve on the coil :S

EDIT 2: I have just found a piece of paper that came with the dizzy. It would appear that I haven't wired it up properly according to it. It says this:

'The 2 wires from the ignition module must be connected as follows:

Black - 12v positive (ignition switched)
Green - Negative side of coil'

So do I take the negative wire from the dizzy to the coil instead of the amp? And what does ignition switched mean? :O

[Edited on 23/3/05 by Benzine]

[Edited on 23/3/05 by Benzine]

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MY LAST POST WAS A BIT LATE!

MAY WELL BE TRICKY TO TURN OVER IF THE TIMING IS MILES OUT, CHECK THE STATIC TIMING THOROUGHLY FIRST.

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Originally posted by NS Dev
MY LAST POST WAS A BIT LATE!

MAY WELL BE TRICKY TO TURN OVER IF THE TIMING IS MILES OUT, CHECK THE STATIC TIMING THOROUGHLY FIRST.

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the battery voltage does sund a bit low, but have you taken the dizzy out? If so, how do you know where the timing is.

Also, doublecheck everything and never trust anybody!

If you have fuel and sparks, it should start in some fashion at least.

[Edited on 24/3/05 by NS Dev]

quote:

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Originally posted by NS Dev
the battery voltage does sund a bit low, but have you taken the dizzy out? If so, how do you know where the timing is.

Also, doublecheck everything and never trust anybody!

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Yep, all in haynes. Follow the "static timing" bit to the letter, except that Burton quote 14 degrees before tdc, so if Haynes say 12 degrees, then ignore their figure and use the Burton one.

Another reply!

Basically, the way i always set timing up roughly to start with is get no 1 piston at TDC on compression/firing stroke, (take out the plug and put your finger over the hole and wind the engine over slowly in the correct direction and you will feel the cylinder come on compression) then wind it back to the appropriate timing mark on the bottom pulley (only roughly at this stage) then take off the dizzy cap and make sure the rotor arm points to no 1 lead in the cap. If not then turn the dizzy till it does. If it won't go that far then you may need the pull the dizzy up and reposition it on it's drive down in the block. Once you have the crank on the timing marks, no 1 just before TDC and the rotor arm pointing at no 1 then it will start up.

You then connect up your strobe light (borrow one from a garage if you don't have one) and (with the engine stopped for a mo!) put some tippex on the 14 deg BTDC mark, then at tickover with the strobe pointed at the mark, make sure it ligns up with the pointer. If not, slacken the clamp bolt and twist the dizzy (usually better to tap gently with a small dinky hammer) until it does.

Remember that turning the dizzy the same was it rotates retards the timing, turning it opposite to the way it rotates advances the timing!

Great, all tremendously helpful, thankyou