These past few mornings have been rather nippy to say the least and my engine temps are struggling to reach 75 degrees which can't be good for the engine. In fact the only time that the engine gets fully warm is when I'm stuck in traffic. As a result my heater also suffers from the cold so I have difficulty demisting the interior just when I need it most.

In the old days I used to cover half of the radiator of my Mk1 Escort with a bit of cardboard but I was thinking there must be a more elegant solution to improve this problem and wondered if it was feasable to insert a 32mm flow valve of some sort into the top rad hose to divert water through the heater matrix until things get warm enough to warrant switching in the radiator - kind of like a thermostat but electrically controlled. In theory I could back off the valve a little to maintain enough flow as things get warmer.

Any thoughts?

Is your thermostat working? If so you should'nt have a problem if it's plumb up correctly???

Dan

Of course - I'm being daft aren't I

I don't actually have a thermostat. I have an electric water pump which is supposed to 'pulse' water around the system according to temperature. This works very well in hot weather and the problem has only surfaced now that the weather has turned cold.

What a muppet I am - an in line thermostat would solve the problem without any electrics needed. This would divert all water through the heater until normal temps are reached. The only problem I can see is if the thermostat would still work with the heater valve closed - nothing would flow so would hot water even reach the thermostat to allow it to do its stuff?

I suppose my next question is "where can I find a simple in line thermostat?"

[Edited on 14-12-07 by RazMan]

Sounds like a fubar thermostat to me too.
All that Rad covering is just so pre-historic!
Just make sure you have a good thermostat (in the right part of your plumbing). This will not only speed up your warm up, it will protect your engine.
Engines that run too cold tend to run rich, not just costing you fuel but coking the engine and in extreme cases, washing the bores.

The only in line thermostat housing I can find is this one from CBS



It is a three way 32mm connection though. My 15mm heater feed comes direct from the engine block - anyone know of a simple 'in / out' version?


[Edited on 14-12-07 by RazMan]

You will have problems finding a simple through thermostat. Most of the manufacturers ones are 3 way.
Because I couldn't get one two way, I had one made for my K-series to put right the stupid position of the original stat. It cost me £100 to get turned, but it did sort my fluctuating temps.
The k-series has the stat in the return from the rad to the block.
I just removed it and put it in the flow from the head to the rad.
If you look at the top of the stat, you will see a hole I drilled in the outer edge to prevent an airlock while filling and to allow a small amount of bypass to allow the water to flow past the stat to warm it up.


Therm1

Description

Description



[Edited on 14/12/2007 by nitram38]

inline thermostat housing - could you not use 2 ford crossflow housings back to back? it may need need some modifying - I could have a quick look to see if it is possible but not until sat.

or else something like this:

YAMAHA YZF1000 R1 5PW 02 03
current on ebay but a bit too much since it is not known if suitable.

Maybe Malc - yorks engines - would know if there is a bike one that you could use and supply?

something else to consider are inline oil stats but the hoses would be too small.

and this


KAWASAKI ZZR1100 D ZZR1100D THERMOSTAT & HOUSING

my only concern with the above photo's is that the stats are very far away from the engine, could the engine not overheat well before the stat has seen any heat?

My stat is only about 10" from the head and works perfectly.
Note what I said about the hole drilled in the stat, which helps with flow and warm up.

quote:

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Originally posted by RazMan
I have an electric water pump which is supposed to 'pulse' water around the system according to temperature.

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quote:

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Note what I said about the hole drilled in the stat, which helps with flow and warm up.

quote:

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thats a good idea, it might also stop the rad from freezing up during a really cold run.

[Edited on 14/12/07 by Mr Whippy]

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02GF74 - 14/12/07 at 11:31 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr Whippy

quote:

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Note what I said about the hole drilled in the stat, which helps with flow and warm up.

quote:

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thats a good idea, never saw that.

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you should get out more!!!

the OEM Rover V8 has a small hole with a joggle pin float tjingy, meant to help get rid of air locks.

el cheapo rv8 'stats don't so one commonly drills a 4.365 mm hole; from memory the hole is fitted at 12 o'clock.

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Mr Whippy - 14/12/07 at 11:34 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by 02GF74

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr Whippy

quote:

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Note what I said about the hole drilled in the stat, which helps with flow and warm up.

quote:

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thats a good idea, never saw that.

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you should get out more!!!

the OEM Rover V8 has a small hole with a joggle pin float tjingy, meant to help get rid of air locks.

el cheapo rv8 'stats don't so one commonly drills a 4.365 mm hole; from memory the hole is fitted at 12 o'clock.

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now you mention it I do recall seeing one like that, I think it was my landy

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britishtrident - 14/12/07 at 11:42 AM

QED do one with a by-pass connection fitted which is essential or the thermostat won't open.
However I would recommend
Rover K series PRT thermostat assembly is what is required
THERMOSTAT PRT inc Housing
X-Part part number: PEM101020


See also
http://web.tiscali.it/elise_s1/

http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/common_problems/HGF_pages/cooling_system_modifications.htm
Rescued attachment LRstat.jpg

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britishtrident - 14/12/07 at 11:42 AM

more
Rescued attachment PRT_thermostat_pack.JPG

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RazMan - 14/12/07 at 12:09 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by nitram38

The k-series has the stat in the return from the rad to the block.
I just removed it and put it in the flow from the head to the rad.

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Very bling indeed - it is even the right colour for me too But why did you make a new one? Didn't the K series one do the job in the new position?

Actually, on closer inspection it is a 3 way valve so is capping off one of the outlets an option? Does the direction of flow matter?





[Edited on 14-12-07 by RazMan]

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RazMan - 14/12/07 at 01:02 PM

I have just edited the QED picture to describe exactly what I want to do.

If I put a reducer on the bypass connection (32mm to 15mm) of the MG thermostat and drill a hole in the thermostat (to allow a small amount of flow when cold) that should work or have I missed something?
I would love to get the QED jobbie but £150 seems a bit excessive when a £25 one will do the same job.


[Edited on 14-12-07 by RazMan]
Rescued attachment Water Pump diagram.JPG

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nitram38 - 14/12/07 at 01:29 PM

No heater on my car so the two way one was better and much neater for my car.
You will find that the rover pvt was developed because of problems when reving the car from cold (plus they old headgasket problems).
The pvt not only opens at temp, but will open if the flow is too high when cold i.e. when you rev it.
I moved my stat because of the stupid position of the original.
I was getting the stat opening for too long so the water would cool too rapidly which can shock the aluminium head.
Putting it in the output means that the engine gets warm and then lets the water round the system.
No more up and down temps, especially on motorways.

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RazMan - 14/12/07 at 01:41 PM

Ah that explains it. In my case revving doesn't make any difference as I have an electric water pump (might have been a good solution for you too)

Thats settled then - I will get either the K series plastic one or the alloy CBS one and mod it to suit. Probably the alloy one as I can TIG it to suit my requirements.

Thanks for all the input guys - it never ceases to amaze me how much knowledge we have in the collective.

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nitram38 - 14/12/07 at 02:22 PM

Be careful welding the alloy one. If it gets too hot it will destroy the thermostat!
The bit controlling your temp opening is made of wax !

[Edited on 14/12/2007 by nitram38]

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RazMan - 14/12/07 at 02:31 PM

Aha! I assumed that it could be dismantled - is the thermostat sealed inside then?

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nitram38 - 14/12/07 at 02:38 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by RazMan
Aha! I assumed that it could be dismantled - is the thermostat sealed inside then?

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Yes. They are a throw away item.

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nitram38 - 14/12/07 at 02:42 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by 02GF74
inline thermostat housing - could you not use 2 ford crossflow housings back to back? it may need need some modifying - I could have a quick look to see if it is possible but not until sat.

or else something like this:

YAMAHA YZF1000 R1 5PW 02 03
current on ebay but a bit too much since it is not known if suitable.

Maybe Malc - yorks engines - would know if there is a bike one that you could use and supply?

something else to consider are inline oil stats but the hoses would be too small.

---

You can't use two housings back to back as one housing has to be deeper as a stat is deeper on one side.
If you look at my pic you will see that both halves are different depths.


Description

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02GF74 - 18/12/07 at 11:21 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by nitram38

You can't use two housings back to back as one housing has to be deeper as a stat is deeper on one side.
If you look at my pic you will see that both halves are different depths.

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tht is what I thought but didn't think the 'stat was that deep; will take a look tonight.

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nitram38 - 18/12/07 at 12:19 PM

I tried it with a couple of cheap housings from my local motor factors and that is why I had to go the custom route.
The thermostat needs clearance for water flow.

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RazMan - 18/12/07 at 10:27 PM

I picked up my in line stat from CBS today - it's actually black and made by Gates. Just need a 32mm>15mm reducer for the heater connection now and I'm sorted. I might have a go at capping the bypass outlet and see what happens first - there might not be enough flow to open the stat though.

I just spent 4 hours in the Dartford tunnel traffic tonight That's the first time that my rad fan has kicked in for ages! At least my feet where warm though

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RazMan - 19/12/07 at 03:19 PM

I might have to re-think a little now. I fitted the in-line stat (with a bung in the bypass outlet) and it blew a hose off before getting hot so it must be boiling inside the engine - looks like I will definitely need the bleed to get enough flow to the stat when cold.

After the stat opens the engine seems to run about 10 degrees hotter for some reason (95 degrees) and seems to fluctuate quite a bit although that might be down to an airlock. I will try tweaking the water pump controller and see if I can bring the temp down a few degrees when it settles down.

A quick question - What if I take a 3mm hose from the bypass outlet to the top of my header tank? The stat is the highest part of the cooling system (apart from the engine) so it should self bleed the system and give enough flow when cold to activate the stat.

Is that right or have I missed something?


[Edited on 19-12-07 by RazMan]

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nitram38 - 19/12/07 at 04:06 PM

The 3mm pipe is a good idea.

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RazMan - 19/12/07 at 05:22 PM

Just tried it - drilled and tapped the bung and fitted an old master cylinder fitting to connect a hose from the bung to the header tank.

Temps have now stabilised at around 90 degrees, warmup is much quicker and my heater works! I suspect air was still in the system and the new hose got rid of it.

It will be interesting to see how the car now behaves on a frosty morning

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