Anyone know of any projects that have turbo'd or supercharged the 2.5 V6?
I'm interested to see what's involved.
Noble did a twin turbo version of this didnt they??
this thread looks worth a good read through
after a quick googling
[Edited on 26/5/08 by Paul TigerB6]
Generally speaking turbo charging is more effective and easier to control than supercharging. It's my personal opinion that most times when
manifacturers choose supercharging they are doing so for marketing reasons (It's more posh and traditional)
With a v enginge one has to decide whether to use two turbos, one for each bank, or whether to use one turbo driven by both banks. If using the second
apporach then the distance from exhaust manifold to turbo is going tobe further, so less effective and more space consumption.
Do you actually need to use the V6? If not, consider turbochaging the zetec, it has been done and very effectively too. Much simpler, less space
needed, lots of power available
John
Thankyou chaps, i'm off to do some reading. DOn't know why my google search didn't show that up. Maybe i'm finally being censored!
I already have the V6 installed and looking for more power.
What have you got it installed in?? Any pics at all??
Hard to describe it really... Will get some pics sorted asap.
I can say it's front engine rear wheel drive running a 2wd cossie gearbox, so it can be done for those wondering!
I would disagree that turbo charging is simpler than supercharging especially for a home brewed creation.
Fuelling, wildly variable boost, excessive heat, manufacturing of manifolds, relocating heat affected components etc for a turbo installation cause
far more problems than when installing a supercharger.
Twin turbo, use small units, with a high A/R turbine so it won't cause too much back pressure. Keep the boost low, approx 7psi, with
intercooling or W/I it should give you an extra 25bhp but the increase in torque will be mind boggling.
With low boost you won't really need to lower the C/R unless the engine is HiComp. Just use GOOD fuel, 98RON minimum. A set of adjustable cam
gears will see you gain an extra 5-8bhp, by advancing the intake by 3deg and retarding the exhaust by 2deg, but you will need to play about a lot with
those setting on the dyno, those are just ball park figures.
It won't be cheap. It will give you a foul mouth by the time everything is properly set, but once you go turbo, you'll never go back.
it's just plain addictive.
Turbo charging adds less to fuel consumption. I`m making a cosworth v6 twin turbo, skline turo as primary, renault r21 turbo as a secondary. One/a
pair of skyline turbos should be good for low lag due to ball bearing internals and ceramic exhaust turbine.
Darren
quote:
Originally posted by jimmyjoebob
I would disagree that turbo charging is simpler than supercharging especially for a home brewed creation.
Fuelling, wildly variable boost, excessive heat, manufacturing of manifolds, relocating heat affected components etc for a turbo installation cause far more problems than when installing a supercharger.
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
consider turbochaging the zetec
quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
consider turbochaging the zetec
Thats just caused a laugh in the office![]()
I'll vote for a centrifugal blower anyday.
Turbos do not react well in a cornering car IMO. Say you are at steady state cornering where any more accelleration will lose traction. The turbo
will often keep spooling up and making more power even though you are not increasing throttle. Means you have to lift, or use less throttle
initially. Either way slows you down.
A centrifugal blower just feels like a larger engine.
The only time I would run turbos is if I couldn't fit a blower in the engine bay. Guys with newer camaros can buy turbo kits that go where the
muffler is. One benefit is no heat and no intercooler req'd
Cheers.
PS: having said that, my car is a twin screw blower. Not a centrifugal. Just what I ended up with
^^^^ What he said - centrifugal blower if you can afford it - Sound astonishing and can be done without rebuilding the engine if you keep the boost low...
I guess it all comes down to what one wants from a car, serious power increase, turbo, moderate power increase, supercharger.
BTW blowers may not need an intercooler but compressing air always makes it hotter, therefore less dense, and the fuel air mix more prone to
detonation.
[Edited on 26/5/08 by mr henderson]
Re turbos in mid corner.
I think a well setup system that limts boost according to RPM AND THROTTLE, will give good performance.
That said, as a turbo is not rpm controlled like a supercharger, it will never be perfect.
Another possibility is traction control, as that will cut power if the increase in boost pressure causes a wheel to slip.
Darren
quote:
Originally posted by C10CoryM
I'll vote for a centrifugal blower anyday.
Turbos do not react well in a cornering car IMO. Say you are at steady state cornering where any more accelleration will lose traction. The turbo will often keep spooling up and making more power even though you are not increasing throttle. Means you have to lift, or use less throttle initially. Either way slows you down.
A centrifugal blower just feels like a larger engine.
The only time I would run turbos is if I couldn't fit a blower in the engine bay. Guys with newer camaros can buy turbo kits that go where the muffler is. One benefit is no heat and no intercooler req'd
Cheers.
PS: having said that, my car is a twin screw blower. Not a centrifugal. Just what I ended up with![]()
quote:
Originally posted by Ivan
I don't agree with this at all - the only time you will have these sorts of problems from a turbo car is if the turbo sizing is wrong and/or boost pressures rediculous. In that case turbo lag and sudden torque increases become a problem when cornering, whereas a well designed turbo system will give you a flat torgue curve from just over 2000RPM to any revs you choose to take your motor to.
Turbo's are great - just get the design right.
Having said that, for a V engine there's a lot to be said for supercharging especialy as you don't then need 2 turbo's.
quote:
Originally posted by Ivan
I don't agree with this at all - the only time you will have these sorts of problems from a turbo car is if the turbo sizing is wrong and/or boost pressures rediculous. In that case turbo lag and sudden torque increases become a problem when cornering, whereas a well designed turbo system will give you a flat torgue curve from just over 2000RPM to any revs you choose to take your motor to.
I guess that the two turbo cars that I have driven for some 320000 kms were strange because they never gave me that problem - maybe I'm just too
bad a driver to notice - or maybe I'm just too good a driver and just compensate subconsciously.
Must admit - the one was a homologation special so handled pretty well once some of the negative camber was taken out of the rear (Opel tS) - the
other a grandpa car with poor handling but great motor (Volvo T4)
The only problem I experienced on track was that if you entered a corner in too low a gear you couldn't change up because the limited slip diff
(fwd) would unlock and the car would go from neutral - or even slight oversteer - to major understeer right off the track - and that had nothing to
do with the turbo but everything to do with the LSD unit in my car.
I suspect that people who have problems with turbo cars haven't made the transition to driving them properly and need to remember that the
throttle response on a turbo car is different and drive accordingly. I believe that there will be very little difference between the ultimate
cornering speeds of two identical cars - one with turbo and one with supercharger.
Also - I don't understand the problem at steady state - unless you have boost creep - which is also a design problem - as it doesn't happen
on the straight when your'e cruising - I have never found myself having to come off the throttle because the car is going faster and faster.
[Edited on 27/5/08 by Ivan]
quote:
Originally posted by Ivan
I believe that there will be very little difference between the ultimate cornering speeds of two identical cars - one with turbo and one with supercharger.
Hmmm. Bit of thinking to do here then.
Maybe cams and throttle bodies will do it then.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Given a skilled driver, perhaps not. I'm certain a less experienced driver would certainly find a normally aspirated or supercharged car easier to control on the limit.
Do I need to say what I prefer
ATB
Simon
^^^