james h
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| posted on 2/7/09 at 02:51 PM |
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Indicators stay on, don't flash...
What would happen if the input and output of a flasher relay were swapped around?
I think this may be why my indicators and hazards don't flash (they just stay on).
If I swapped the terminals around, could anything bad happen? Just want to check before I do anything silly.
Thanks
James
ETA: I am using LED indicators all round on my car. Using a standard flasher relay, the indicators are more dull.
[Edited on 2/7/09 by james h]
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Flamez
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| posted on 2/7/09 at 02:54 PM |
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If they stay on i would first check your earths.
my build mac1motorsports
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02GF74
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| posted on 2/7/09 at 02:58 PM |
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firstly what relay do you have?
two pin will not work with hazzards i.e. it operates 2 lamps on one side not all 4.
2 pin has L and B termianls,
B = 12 V
L = to indicator switch
am thinking about this but cannot see why it won't work either way - the flashng is achoieved by a bimetallic strip that depend on current flow
not current or voltage direction.
if you have electronic relay, pins labelled 49, 49a, 31, then it is a different question altogether.
see here for connection
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/relays/flashers.php
to figure out what is wrong, I would remove realy from car, wire up 12 V to 1 pin and 2 indicator bulbs in parallel to other, other end of bulb to
ground nad it should flash.
are you using LED bulbs perchance?
[Edited on 2/7/09 by 02GF74]
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james h
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| posted on 2/7/09 at 03:03 PM |
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I have a three pin relay, i.e. 49, 31, 49a. (30W - supposedly for LED lights)
Using a normal 3 pin relay i.e. (110W) the indicator/hazard lights go slightly more dim, if this helps at all.
I have LED indicators all round i.e. 3 pairs.
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02GF74
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| posted on 2/7/09 at 03:28 PM |
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ok, now we have mnore info.
answe to your quesiton, no you cannot just swap wires willy nilly and which were you proposeing to swap as you have a choice of 3?
as per linky,
49 goes to 12 V
31 goes to 0 V
49a to indicator switch.
the lamps will be connected to other end of indicator swtich with one terminal of bulb to 0 V.
as you have LED bulbs illuminating, it would appear you have wired them corret way - they are direcitonal.
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 2/7/09 at 03:44 PM |
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Do they have to flash for IVA?
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james h
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| posted on 2/7/09 at 03:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
ok, now we have mnore info.
answe to your quesiton, no you cannot just swap wires willy nilly and which were you proposeing to swap as you have a choice of 3?
as per linky,
49 goes to 12 V
31 goes to 0 V
49a to indicator switch.
the lamps will be connected to other end of indicator swtich with one terminal of bulb to 0 V.
as you have LED bulbs illuminating, it would appear you have wired them corret way - they are direcitonal.
Looking at the back of the relay, there are three wires going into the three pins. The black wire goes to the earth pin, so I am assuming that is
fine. I was proposing to swap the input (49) and output (49a) around, to see if it made any difference. But as you say, it seems that they are wired
the correct way.
As you can probably tell, I am not too hot on wiring :p Hence why an autoelectrician wired up the car (also so I would have time to get my car in
before the SVA cutoff date).
What do you make of the fact that when the LED flasher relay is put in, the indicators are brighter than using the standard relay?
I have heard that some people use resistors to up the load on the relay to make them flash properly.
James
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james h
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| posted on 2/7/09 at 03:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
Do they have to flash for IVA?
I would have thought so, but I got my car through the SVA test before the cutoff date. Pending this small hiccup with the indicators, I will be
putting it in for a retest soon..
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iank
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| posted on 2/7/09 at 04:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by james h
quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
Do they have to flash for IVA?
I would have thought so, but I got my car through the SVA test before the cutoff date. Pending this small hiccup with the indicators, I will be
putting it in for a retest soon..
Yes they do need to flash.
Section 23, page 1, item 3
quote:
The indicators must flash at a rate of between 60 and 120 times a minute (with all mandatory indicators working, and with the engine
running)
I believe SVA was exactly the same.
[Edited on 2/7/09 by iank]
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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02GF74
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| posted on 3/7/09 at 08:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by james h
What do you make of the fact that when the LED flasher relay is put in, the indicators are brighter than using the standard relay?
I have no plausible explanation for that; it may be that the contact resistance is greater for the stanadrd relay but I cannot imagine it
is so much more as to make the lamps dimmer.
I have heard that some people use resistors to up the load on the relay to make them flash properly.
If you have an electronic relay, then it should not be dependent on the load i.e. how many and what sort of bulbs you have fitted.
To test that theory, replace frotn and rear LED lamps with bulbs - pull them out of your tin top of buy pair from halfords - a couple of quid - and
handy to have spare.
James
As you can imagine not knowing the wiring diagram nor how the loom was actually wired, make it quite hard to diagnose.
The basic priniciple is like this:
You have power going to the relay = connections as in prevous post, then a contact out.
this contact is connected to indicator switch that is in turn connected to lamps, the other end of the lamps is at 0 V (i.e. chassis).
when the indicator switch is closed, the currrent is able to flow through the lamp - the on/off bit is done inside the flasher relay.
Eitehr the realy is not working or the wiring is bad.
I cannot help you with the wiring but is is simples to checks the relays.
Connect 12 V and 0 V as per previous post.
Take 1 lamp and conect to 3 rd conact and earth. If rely works, the lamp will flash.
If it is truly electronic relay, then 1 LED lamp will do it.
If not, then realy is faulty or you don't have electronic relay.
Interestingly, on the VWP web site link I posted they list eletronic relays and LED relays; I owuld have thought they would be one and the same,
interesting ......
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james h
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| posted on 6/7/09 at 05:11 PM |
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Thanks for your help there, definitely some stuff to get stuck into  Will let you know when I sort it.
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