l0rd
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| posted on 25/10/11 at 07:51 PM |
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Any car alarm experts in the house?
I will be fitting an alarm in my tin top. I would like some help if possible please.
Clio 2002 1.4 16v
Toad ai606
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 25/10/11 at 08:23 PM |
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The only advice I can give mate is don't get a Sniper alarm! Had one for around 6 months, it's gone wrong, contacted the company and after
one email it all went quiet, even after 2 more pleading for some help. Won't bother again 
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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l0rd
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| posted on 25/10/11 at 08:33 PM |
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i went for the toad as it is the best value for money and it is supposed to be quite good.
the problem is that in Greece it is not a known manufacturer and people hesitate to touch it.
i might end up fitting it myself but would like some help as it is the first time i am working on an alarm and in a car that if anything goes wrong, i
might regret it.
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 25/10/11 at 08:41 PM |
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Read the instructions SEVERAL times so it makes as much sense as possible. Take your time, and if in any doubt, ask. All the alarms I've ever
fitted need you to find a permanent +12V, an ignition switched +12V, earth, connection to indicators, interior light switches and normally (if it has
an immobiliser) then either ignition control unit feed or fuel pump feed. So if you can identify these first then that's probably half the
battle.
I'm sure someone more expert should give more advice but that's always worked for me.
HTH
JB
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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perksy
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| posted on 25/10/11 at 08:59 PM |
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Toad and Meta do some nice units
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l0rd
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| posted on 26/10/11 at 11:52 AM |
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after reading loads of reviews, Toad are by far the best alarms to own as they do not produce so many problems.
today i sat down and had a look at the loom.
Now i need to find a way to get all the peripherals working (central locking, windows total closure, sunroof closure, headlights)
Also, i have been thinking of making a text alert system using an old mobile phone.
And all that without damaging the UCH. If i damage the UCH i am f***ed.
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bi22le
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| posted on 26/10/11 at 12:15 PM |
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I have fitted many many alarms as that was my job.
Did a few Toads in my day as well (yeah you heard me!).
You need to know the programming and the wiring layout for the alarm. Do you have that? If its CAT 1 alarm its not meant for public knowledge and wont
be in the box. Easy to tell if its CAT1, all the wires are black.
From what I remember renaults are not too bad. passenger side behind glove box is a big loom. You will find what you want in there.
Central locking is +.
Im at work now so cant get any info. Just do a goole search and you will probably get all the colours and pick up details you need.
U2U me if you need more help. I never check posts once they are off of the front page!!!
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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bi22le
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| posted on 26/10/11 at 06:20 PM |
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As I just typed such a long ass response in a U2U I thought it best not wasted and have put it below.
Long read and covers alot.
Ioannis,
I am home now and had a bit more of a think. First of all I will list the tools required. Not the basics, they are obvious. Just the things that you
will need to know about before you start. Ill go through finding the wires, tips on joining and wiring the rest.
First of all dont worry about damaging too much. I have bunged 12V down lots of wires I shouldnt and since come to the conclusion that the electronics
on cars are quite robust! Tread respectfully but dont worry.
Tools:
Power Probe - This is a tool used to check if a wire is 12V or 0V. It can also put power into the wire it is checking. These really save time and are
worth the £20 quid they cost. Also once you have one it makes fault finding easy. If you dont want to buy one then a fused wire with to 12V with an in
line bulb and a the same again but to earth can still speed things up. You can just use one wire \ bulb combo and just change it from 12V to earth as
needed. A multimeter will also work as long as it has a fast refresh.
Soldering Iron and shrink wrap - DONT USE CHOC BLOCKS. They are terrible, inconsisant, and massive. You will have to solder lots of joints in a close
area so space will be tight.
Plans of fitment.
Ok I will literally now just play through my head how I used to fit an alarm. Ill type as I think!!
The first thing to do is to find your pick up points for the indicators, locking and interior lights. Also you need to find a constant 12V, earth,
ignition feed and isolator (immobalisation) cuts.
Use your prob to find the indicators. I am thinking that if the gloove box comes out then try and put the main alarm brain there. Dont fit it yet
though. Otherwise I think I put them behind the clocks a lot as there was space there.
To find your indicators: They will be under the kick panels down the side of the front seats. Try the drivers side. Get the panel up and get the loom
up and accessable. You need to be able to work, with space, around the wires. Now stick the hazard lights on and with a power probe or bulb that is
fused to earth check every wire. What you are looking for is the bulb to come on every time the indicator flases, as if it was one itself. THere needs
to be two seperate wires. One for the left and one for the right. Once you have found a suspected indicator wire. Turn off the hazards and put 12V
(fused) down the wire. THe indicators for either left or right should come on. If neither, dont worry keep looking, if both come on its not right. If
you can find any that do this check the passenger side or pick up the wires from the indicator stalk or hazard switch.
To find the locking: This is the same as the indicators but with the remote central locking keep locking and unlocking to check each wire. This is
where you need a power probe becasue the signal may be positive (+12V) it may be earth (0V). Again once you have a suspect wire check it by sending
the same signal and see if it locks the doors. You will should have one wire for locking and one for unlocking. Make sure to latch shut the drivers,
and any other open doors so the locking works properly and dont bounce. This locking wire will be in the kick panel or behind the locing switch in the
cetral panel (IIRC there is a buttin there on these cars so check there, get the colours then find them in the kick pannel). Total closure for the
windows and sunroof are powered by a seperate module unless it is included in your alarm. If that is the case you will have to run wires into the back
of the window switch. If that is in the door then it is a knightmare. You can do total close with just a timed output and a set of relays but thats
another topic for another day!
To find the Interior light: This will be up by the light or often in the kick panel area or direct from the switch by the hinges of the front door. If
it is a 5 door you may have to add switches to the rear doors as they often dont operate an interior switch.
To find your power supply: Dont go to the battery. The signal is noisey and the pick up is obvious. Go to the thick supply wires at the ignition
barrel or ideally the back of the fuse box. You need to have 2 power supplies at least if it is CAT1. If you have space you can take them all from the
same place. Make sure that the thick wire is a constant. Sometimes they can turn off after 15mins of inactivity or once the doors are locked! You also
need 2 earths but these need to be in different locations. I always run one wire to the same place as the main car loom earth point and then made my
own second earth with a crimped ring terminal and self drilling screw.
To make immobiliser cuts:
You need to cut 2 of 4 things to make a CAT1 correct. You need to cut the ignition (a must), the starter, the fuel (not a good idea if diesel), and
coil. I also cut ignition and start by finding the wire at the back of the barrel. Get the colour or trace the wire down away from the barrel so it’s
not obviously a cut. There are several ignition fed wires that come from the barrel. ALL of them bar one go 0V when cranking the engine and that is
the one you want. When you make an immobilisation cut try to actually cut approx 10cm of loom out. It makes it harder to hot wire that way and does
not give you loads of joins all in one place. Also remember that you must have the ignition feed wire on the INPUT of the ignition cut otherwise the
alarm will not know if it coming or going! Starter, fuel and coil are easy cuts. I would like to think you can do this. Keep your cuts separate as to
slow down any hot wiring. One under the dash and one in the kick panel is a good idea.
Boot and bonnet feed: This is often only one wire and you have to split it. The boot is picked up by either a wire in the kick panel (the one that
goes to the dash to tell you the boot is open) or go to the light in the boot. Often going to the switch is possible but sometimes hard to access.
Unless there is already a switch you may have to add a switch for the bonnet. Both these wires and the interior are 0V sensing and never 12V.
You won’t need 2 dual zones. Those sensors are normally great and offer good accuracy and intelligence. I have also had them clash before if there is
more than one in one car. Fit one, set it up if your not happy then try and get the other one going. They will have 4 wires. 12V supply, 0V supply,
zone one 0V out and Zone 2 0V out. If it is omni then zone 1 and 2 could be a short and long 0V out of the same wire so check. There should be a nice
plug on the loom already if they are compatible switches. If not then cut off the plug and use the wires anyway. The Dual zones need to be bang in the
middle of the car. Normally right between the front seats. Try and keep it accessible as it will need adjusting. Even cold weather affects these.
The siren: You need to find a way to under the bonnet. You probably had to do this any way for the bonnet switch so do the same. If you can find a way
through find where the main car loom goes through. Hopefully it will be via a massive grommet. Punch another hole through it, careful not to spear any
wires, and feet the siren wire through. Use silicon to make sure its water tight after. I have, in the past, had to drill dedicated holes through the
bulk head. This is hard to do and dicey as the chances of you hitting something with the drill is high.
Once you have found all your wires find a mounting place for the alarm. With out doing any looming just get the box in a location that can be screwed
in, CAT1 requirement. It its well hidden I have zip tied them in but only not CAT units, but this is because I had to fit them to a standard, your not
so fused I guess.
Before putting the screws in use black tape to wrap up the wires. You want to loom it up s that the right wires break off of the alarm loom at the
right time. If you do all of the wires then it looks a bit like tree roots. Just start it off though as once the box is in getting the loom wrapping
started is hard.
Once the box is in you need to think ahead. You know what wires need to go where, that why you just spent the morning with out even opening the alarm
box! Of course you could just shove it in and run the wires but I made alarm fitting an art. I use to use the same wrap tape as the manufacture of the
car I was fitting it to and even wrapped the same way and joined into the loom. Must alarm fitters would not spot my alarms and years afterwards I had
trouble cutting out my alarms they were that covert!
Just be forward planning and methodical. Leave the fuses out of the alarm until all of the wiring is finished. If you don’t it could spike or just
keep clicking away which is off putting! All of the joints need to be shrink wrapped and not just black tapped. The solder often ends up sharp and
will go straight through a bit of tape, even several layers.
I think I have covered the most of it. I hope this is of use and U2U me if you need further help.
Wayne.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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Proby
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| posted on 26/10/11 at 06:29 PM |
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Excellent write up bi22le!! Educational read!
The alarm/immobiliser is ALL about the fitting.
[Edited on 26/10/11 by Proby]
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l0rd
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| posted on 26/10/11 at 07:38 PM |
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Ouaouuuu
That is an excellent write up. It has been very informing. You make it look so easy.
Am i supposed to use diodes on the cars' loom? Most of the things go to the UCH module or multitimer that controls everything. Do i need to
protect it?
I am sure i will have quite a few questions to ask.
What i will try to do, is to sit down tomorrow morning, Get the wiring diagram done and if you are willing to inspect it, that would be great.
Thank you ever so much Wayne.
This forum is amazing. I posted a similar post on the renault clio forums and nobody replied which is annoying as quite a few of them have the same
alarm fitted.
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bi22le
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| posted on 26/10/11 at 08:02 PM |
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Thanks for the gratitude, it took a while to write, and car electronics is the only good knowledge I have to give on here! Will be good for people to
reference in the future to.
Regarding the car loom protection I would not bother. Sounds mad but my old power probe use to leak about 4V and as I said in the long post i used to
drop wires to 0V and click 12 V though others all of the time. Got smoke a couple of times but still no blown modules! If you want to be mega safe
though then multimeter is the way to go.
A Diode would not help protect much as it will stop pos current one way but still let a 0V through and vice versa.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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perksy
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| posted on 26/10/11 at 09:07 PM |
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Very good write up
Thanks for sharing 
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keithometune
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| posted on 27/10/11 at 12:12 PM |
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on the older clios the top of the dash unbolted and all the wires where easily available, made for a neat and easy install, worth checking to see if
the 02 modle is the same
keith
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l0rd
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| posted on 28/10/11 at 02:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by keithometune
on the older clios the top of the dash unbolted and all the wires where easily available, made for a neat and easy install, worth checking to see if
the 02 modle is the same
keith
All clios are like that.
Today, i am having a blonde momend. Brain completely out so didn't touch it yet.
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 28/10/11 at 07:26 PM |
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Now THAT is what you call a reply!  Nice one chap.
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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l0rd
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| posted on 30/10/11 at 03:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Daddylonglegs
Now THAT is what you call a reply! Nice one chap.
How are you m8? I have seen you are almost done there?
Too bad i moved abroad and didn't manage to meet you.
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l0rd
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| posted on 30/10/11 at 03:28 PM |
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Not mine as mine is a LHD one but the fusebox is in the same place
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l0rd
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| posted on 3/11/11 at 09:55 AM |
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Just a quick question and confirmation on a wiring diagram
The alarm states
Green/red wire (variable timed output)
Connect this wire to other devices that require a signal that pulls low (to ground) for an interval controlled by the user. Once activated, the
internal sensors are disabled until 10 seconds after the timed period. (Press and hold buttons 3 and 4 together).
This is supposed to be used for the headlight operation.
Should I assume that as soon as it is activated it goes to ground? I.e. acting as a switch?
Also,
TIMED OUTPUT DRIVE (LOW) 500mA max
So, if it does act as a switch, the max current is 500mA max.
Can anyone check the schematic below? My aim is to activate the frond headlight beams.
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jamesbond007ltk
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| posted on 3/11/11 at 10:18 AM |
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Not 100% sure but this sounds a bit like the feature on my alarm that allows devices 'shut-off' time. Mine has what is essentially a
voltage sensing function that means the alarm will sound if a light is turned on, or someone tries to crank the engine etc.
The shut off feature allows devices such as headlights or courtesy lights to remain on for a given time after you have armed the system, without
setting the alarm off. It is not designed to supply power to those devices.
Just my thoughts from very limited experience, bi22le will know better.
Rich
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l0rd
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| posted on 3/11/11 at 02:52 PM |
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as you mentioned, this is the headlights operation facility.
It is a timed feature that should leave the lights on so you have some time to get to your house.
as it is not designed to supply power, this is why i wanted to add the relay. if it goes to ground, it will trigger the relay which will shitch on
the headlights.
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Phil Smith
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| posted on 9/11/11 at 10:22 PM |
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quote:
as you mentioned, this is the headlights operation facility.
Hi l0rd,
If I am reading your question correctly you intend to use this output to earth a relay you have wired into the system on a constant live?
Theoretically possible but two warnings, 1. Make sure the relay you use requires less than 500 milliamps (this is half the power required to blow a 1
amp fuse) 2 be sure your system only uses 1 fuse for headlights (both sides) or you will only have one light guiding you home.
I am not an expert but have fitted quite a few alarms and do a lot of auto electrics. Happy to be shot down in flames by those who know system better
than I! but honestly I would not be trying to use the alarm to make my passage home easier (that is not what it is designed for)
Phil
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bi22le
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| posted on 9/11/11 at 11:10 PM |
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Hi l0rd. good to see you have started the alarm.
500mA is standard for a timed output. Use a relay as you suggested. one side of the coil and a supply to the relay. middle pin insulated ( or a basic
relay) so you dont have bare 12v. Use the supply to the relay. 20A should suit.
O2 plate may have one or two feeds to the head lights. easiest place to pick up is off of the back of the stawk or headlight switch. If that dont work
there may be a relay. inwhich case find and use its output. Its a game then to chase the clicking noise!!
May i suggest you fit and get the alarm working first. you can add and play with it later. little sreeps are easier to chase faults. get the thing
working then show off!
I could not see the schematic on my phone properly. pure fluke i saw this post. not been on for a few days.
Good luck.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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