rayroni
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| posted on 21/12/05 at 01:07 PM |
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Is my starter motor man enough?
Been trying to start my 1600 xflow with an inertia starter of unknown origin (it fits and engages).
Problem is, when I turn the engine over with plugs in the starter can't handle it - barely turns the engine. With jump leads it even drags the
revs down considably on the donor car. Also get sparks from the back of the starter motor.
I assume it is either that the motor needs referb or its the wrong type.
1: How can you identify a 998 Fiesta one from a 1600 Escort?
2: Can you get spares kits?
3: Typically how much can you expect to pay for a recon one?
4: Anyone recommend a supplier in the Nottingham/Derby area?
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ditchlewis
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| posted on 21/12/05 at 01:16 PM |
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Sorry I cant help with an answer, but i have been having the same problem with a 2.1 pinto. so i am interested in any answers.
the only thing to consider is have you got a good earth connection?
Ditch
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russbost
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| posted on 21/12/05 at 01:38 PM |
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Fit your jump leads, +ve to supply side of solenoid, earth direct to body of starter, if this makes no difference starter is almost certainly
knackered - which if it has sparks jumping around inside would seem highly likely!!
Inertia starters were very cheap, don't know what availability is like now, I would suggest an "A1" motor stores shop if you have
one anywhere in your area - I think they are nationwide. I'd guess at around £20 for a recon.
Cheers Russ
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 21/12/05 at 01:42 PM |
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A few random thoughts...
1. Is the battery fit, and fully charged?
2. Are all live connections clean and tight?
3. Are all earth connections clean and tight (especially the one between the engine block and chassis)?
4. Was the weather really cold when you tried it? 20W50 oil is like treacle in this weather, and my X-flow would hardly turn over the other day.
If you feel the need to buy a recon starter, try Partco - they supply everyone else! I paid around £40 + VAT (exchange) for a starter that looked
like it was brand new. You could buy one from a scrappy - but you might have even more trouble! At least the Partco came with a warranty.
BTW - these things can be overhauled, if you follow the instructions in Peter Wallage's car electrics book - if you can find spares like
brushes, that is. If it's sparking, that might be all it needs, together with a cleaned-up commutator. If you haven't got a clue what
these words mean - go buy a recon unit!
David
[Edited on 21/12/05 by David Jenkins]
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 21/12/05 at 02:30 PM |
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Some Xflow engine had a preengaged starter fitted as standard . May be worth checking the teeth on the ring gear when starter is off . It may be you
have the wrong type of starter ? Inertia starters had a chamfer on the back of the ring gear (clutch side) IIRC . Also doe's starter turn engine
over easily with plugs out? If so then it sounds like you have overadvanced ignition timing. . Sparks from starter is down to faulty starter. As for
starter problem with 2.1 Pinto , if you need a replacement starter try one from an automatic if you can find one . (Old tip from CCC)
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02GF74
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| posted on 21/12/05 at 02:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rayroni
Been trying to start my 1600 xflow with an inertia starter of unknown origin (it fits and engages).
Problem is, when I turn the engine over with plugs in the starter can't handle it - barely turns the engine. With jump leads it even drags the
revs down considably on the donor car. Also get sparks from the back of the starter motor.
I assume it is either that the motor needs referb or its the wrong type.
there are two unknows here; the starter motor origin and its condition.
How does it spin without the plugs?
some comments.
Not sure if sparks inside the motor is a concern; you have a multi-segmented commutator that passes over a contact; there will be sparks when these go
past; you can see this happening inside your black and decker drill or any other motor.
The dropping down of revs is saying you are drawing a big current (usually when you jump start the other vehicle is meant to be revved at about 2,000
rmp).
You may have a bad connection to the motor, earth etc. Once you have tried starting it, put you hand over various parts: wiring, motor, solenoid to
see what is getting hot - you are disspiating a lot of power that is not being converted into motion hence it must be heat.
Many years ago I forgot to put the earth lead to the block; found this accidentaly when brushimg my hand against the accelerator cable that was hot -
the starting current was going though that! 
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rayroni
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| posted on 21/12/05 at 04:51 PM |
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All connections 'I believe' are ok, battery is sound. It is an inertia type flywheel. It was probably about 4degs in garage at the time,
but it was really slow turning over and the large drop in revs, kind of concerned me.
Without plugs in it does spin faster, but not as fast as I thought it would/should.
Do get your point about sparks on motors, however the sparks are coming from where the main shaft emerges from the backplate - and about 1/2 to 1 inch
long in length (visable)
Have wedged the throttle pedal to give 4000rpm on supply car and it brings them down massively on attempted xflow start.
Might be worth looking at earths again (had jump leads to battery posts - not to engine).
What are the toughts on the sparks - would we expect sparks with a bad earth?
Cheers as always chaps!!
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 21/12/05 at 05:28 PM |
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Sounds to me like the starter is passed it sell by date , recommend a reconditioned unit , less hassle than doing it yourself . A bad earth would get
hot and may arc out but I've never seen a bad earth cause a spark to jump a large gap.
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tks
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| posted on 21/12/05 at 07:23 PM |
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no i would think the same
also i think that your startes
consumes allot of power more that it should..
and the reason an 4000rpm engine goes down is because the alternator is fighting for his live!
how much HP do you think you get at 4000rpm? lets say 20Hp..(wich would be low..)
then if the revs go down... you are consuming 20HP and thats allot!!
4Kw=5Hp sow you are consuming 16000watss of energy that means
1333Amps(means unlimited)...i'm sure that your starter is bad...
allot more of what a normal alternator delivers..
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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rayroni
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| posted on 24/12/05 at 08:31 AM |
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Marvellous got a recon one and it turns over a treat.
FYI - Couldn't get one from Partco so went to car parts direct - £45
Thanks Andy.
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 24/12/05 at 09:00 AM |
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Glad to hear you have a result.
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