jps
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| posted on 21/1/19 at 01:47 PM |
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Running a 12v (cigar) socket straight off battery?
Always looking to save a couple of quid where I can...
Can I make one of these: https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/trailing-lead-remote-12v-lighter-style-power-socket-with-crocodile-clips
Simply by buying one of these - and attaching the crocodile clips I have lying about?
https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/black-lighter-power-socket-rubber-plug-iva-ok
The saving is that I will refit the 'IVA OK' one into my car once I get to that point.
My electrical knowledge is pretty much zero - but I'm somewhat surprised I don't need to put a fuse in-line or something?
I'll be running a tyre compressor off it...
Oh - and an additional point: I assume all batteries provide DC (how could they alternate?!) - but cars have alternators, so I assume car electrics
run off AC? Why don't I need something turning DC into AC to drive my cigar lighter/air compressor?
[Edited on 21/1/19 by jps]
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loggyboy
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| posted on 21/1/19 at 01:52 PM |
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Is this a joke post?
Mistral Motorsport
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jps
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| posted on 21/1/19 at 02:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Is this a joke post?
Err - no? Why?
I wasn't kidding when I said "My electrical knowledge is pretty much zero - but I'm somewhat surprised I don't need to put a
fuse in-line or something? "
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nick205
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| posted on 21/1/19 at 02:03 PM |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator_(automotive)
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peter030371
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| posted on 21/1/19 at 02:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jps
Always looking to save a couple of quid where I can...
Can I make one of these: https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/trailing-lead-remote-12v-lighter-style-power-socket-with-crocodile-clips
Simply by buying one of these - and attaching the crocodile clips I have lying about?
https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/black-lighter-power-socket-rubber-plug-iva-ok
The saving is that I will refit the 'IVA OK' one into my car once I get to that point.
My electrical knowledge is pretty much zero - but I'm somewhat surprised I don't need to put a fuse in-line or something?
I'll be running a tyre compressor off it...
Oh - and an additional point: I assume all batteries provide DC (how could they alternate?!) - but cars have alternators, so I assume car electrics
run off AC? Why don't I need something turning DC into AC to drive my cigar lighter/air compressor?
[Edited on 21/1/19 by jps]
https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/trailing-lead-remote-12v-lighter-style-power-socket-with-crocodile-clips
These should have a fuse if they wanted to be safe, I have seen some that do but that is a cheap one.
https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/black-lighter-power-socket-rubber-plug-iva-ok
You can add wires and crocodile clips as you say but even better is to also add an inline fuse like this
https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/in-line-waterproof-blade-fuse-holder
All car electrics are DC, yes an alternator does produce AC but this is rectified by diodes to DC (these are built into the alternator normally).
The voltage in your car is nominally 12V DC but can go as high as 14.5V and under extreme load (cold day, lights on, trying to start) it can drop well
below 12V.
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jps
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| posted on 21/1/19 at 02:07 PM |
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Thanks Peter
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HowardB
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| posted on 21/1/19 at 02:09 PM |
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car battery terminals and wiring should be done in such a way as to be safe.
In line sockets that are fixed in the car like a 12v cigarette socket should be fused, often with a 20A inline fuse.
A temporary attachment of an ancillary device direct to the battery with crocodile clips can be done for the duration of requirement. As you can
imagine they are not a fixed or permanent installation.
battery - 12v+ red - inline fuse - SOCKET
battery - 12v- black - inline fuse - SOCKET
hth
H
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again  and goes zoom)
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James
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| posted on 21/1/19 at 02:36 PM |
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JPS,
As a cautionary tale- both Jasper and Hicost had car fires that totally destroyed their beautiful cars.
Please don't skimp on this for the sake of 4 quid!
Look at the benefits of the proper cigarette lighter you've shown- you get a decent mount to screw it to the back of your dash and also a
dust/rain cover.
Cheers!
James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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jps
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| posted on 21/1/19 at 02:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by James
JPS,
As a cautionary tale- both Jasper and Hicost had car fires that totally destroyed their beautiful cars.
Please don't skimp on this for the sake of 4 quid!
Look at the benefits of the proper cigarette lighter you've shown- you get a decent mount to screw it to the back of your dash and also a
dust/rain cover.
Cheers!
James
Thanks James - yes, i'm intending to buy the 'proper' one - and for now just wire it straight to the car battery. With stuff I
already have lying about I'll probably make a little tray to hold the battery and to mount the socket on. This post was really because I'm
just a bit surprised it's a simple as attaching that socket (with an inline fuse) straight to a car battery.
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snippy
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| posted on 21/1/19 at 06:07 PM |
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I use the rubber plug type 12v sockets as they keep the rain out in our open to all weather cars. Make sure you fit an in line fuse.
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 21/1/19 at 10:25 PM |
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Fwiw 12v in a car is generally accepted to spike to 80v in worst cases. Most cheap stuff is rated to 30v, automotive grade stuff to 60iirc
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computid
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| posted on 21/1/19 at 11:34 PM |
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Really this should be switch on ignition live, unless you plan to be able to run it when the car is switched off.
So it should go:
Battery + -> Fuse -> SPST Relay Terminal 1
SPST Relay Terminal 2 -> 12v Socket Live
12v Socket Neutral -> Battery/chassis ground
SPST Coil Terminal 1 -> Ignition live
SPST Coil Terminal 2 -> Battery/chassis ground
That'll ensure that if you accidentally leave something plugged in it doesn't drain the battery, and if you have an electrical fire from
something plugged into it switching the ignition off will kill it.
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peter030371
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| posted on 22/1/19 at 08:22 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Fwiw 12v in a car is generally accepted to spike to 80v in worst cases. Most cheap stuff is rated to 30v, automotive grade stuff to 60iirc
It can be far worse than that but we are only talking milliseconds or even microseconds, anything you buy that plugs into a car power socket should be
designed to cope with automotive transients  As far as the OP is concerned 'normal' car voltage is 12VDC plus or minus a couple of V
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nick205
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| posted on 22/1/19 at 10:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by computid
Really this should be switch on ignition live, unless you plan to be able to run it when the car is switched off.
So it should go:
Battery + -> Fuse -> SPST Relay Terminal 1
SPST Relay Terminal 2 -> 12v Socket Live
12v Socket Neutral -> Battery/chassis ground
SPST Coil Terminal 1 -> Ignition live
SPST Coil Terminal 2 -> Battery/chassis ground
That'll ensure that if you accidentally leave something plugged in it doesn't drain the battery, and if you have an electrical fire from
something plugged into it switching the ignition off will kill it.
VAG cars (Alhambra, Passat, Touran etc.) are all done this way. The 12V accessory socket (as they call it) is switched live and therefore
doesn't power anything without the ignition turned on. Mildly annoying sometimes, but it does prevent you draining the vehicle battery and then
not being able to start the vehicle. Particularly useful to prevent the vhicle battery being drained by my kids on camping trips!
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 22/1/19 at 12:23 PM |
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buy a foot pump
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nick205
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| posted on 22/1/19 at 12:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
buy a foot pump
Fair comment!
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jps
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| posted on 22/1/19 at 01:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
buy a foot pump
Fair comment!
What happened to 'work smart not hard'?!
I have build wheels on my chassis - all of which have slow punctures. I'm getting a bit bored of pumping them up everytime I go to work on the
car...
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nick205
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| posted on 22/1/19 at 01:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jps
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
buy a foot pump
Fair comment!
What happened to 'work smart not hard'?!
I have build wheels on my chassis - all of which have slow punctures. I'm getting a bit bored of pumping them up everytime I go to work on the
car...
Get a mains powered air compressor (and some air tools) then
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 22/1/19 at 03:40 PM |
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Or cut the fag lighter plug off the end of the 12V compressor, ad a fuse to the live, then croc clips direct onto the battery?
I have done that, only downside is popping the bonnet, but if you are doing all the checks it doesn't matter.
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jps
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| posted on 22/1/19 at 03:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
Or cut the fag lighter plug off the end of the 12V compressor, ad a fuse to the live, then croc clips direct onto the battery?
I have done that, only downside is popping the bonnet, but if you are doing all the checks it doesn't matter.
Battery is not in the car yet - so popping the bonnet is not a problem - but I do use the compressor on my tin-top, so don't want to hack it
about.
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gremlin1234
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| posted on 22/1/19 at 08:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jps
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
Or cut the fag lighter plug off the end of the 12V compressor, ad a fuse to the live, then croc clips direct onto the battery?
I have done that, only downside is popping the bonnet, but if you are doing all the checks it doesn't matter.
Battery is not in the car yet - so popping the bonnet is not a problem - but I do use the compressor on my tin-top, so don't want to hack it
about.
move the tintop closer to the work.
note, most cigar-lighter type plugs on accessories have a fuse in them which is good, especially when you shut the door on the wire...
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snapper
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| posted on 23/1/19 at 09:22 AM |
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As stated above, if you do use crocodile clips, only use for to duration of the need to attach the tyre pump.
DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR WITH THEM ATTACHED
Crocodile clips will present a bare metal surface for something to touch as you bounce along and if it is the earth clip that makes contact or worse
come adrift and hits a metal part of the car the full power of the battery will short through the cable which will probably melt and or spark a lot.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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jps
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| posted on 23/1/19 at 09:43 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR WITH THEM ATTACHED
Chance would be a fine thing - it's just a rolling chassis with no wiring loom, no fuel system and no brake system. But it does have the engine
and gearbox in, which is why pushing it out of the garage with flat tyres is a bit of a bind....
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
move the tintop closer to the work.
It's too tight down the side of my house to get my tintop through - otherwise I would do exactly that... It is however wide enough to get my
Haynes out (that was checked before I bought the house!)...
[Edited on 23/1/19 by jps]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 23/1/19 at 12:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jps
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
buy a foot pump
Fair comment!
What happened to 'work smart not hard'?!
I have build wheels on my chassis - all of which have slow punctures. I'm getting a bit bored of pumping them up everytime I go to work on the
car...
Get the tyres fixed?
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