pajsh
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| posted on 9/7/05 at 06:21 PM |
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Nippon Denso Alternators
I have viewed all the threads and am confused. I have replaced the Bosch alternator on my Pinto with a Nippon Denso simlar to that seen in an earlier
post.
I have read and seen in the Haynes manual that the charge warning light has an ignition feed and is then run to the alternator. This worked fine with
the Bosch but I can't get the ND to work.
I have the T type terminal layout with IG and L marked on the casing. I read in an earlier post that the L goes to the light and the IG has an
ignition feed. Does this mean I have to rewire my CW light so it is fed from the alternator rather than to it and earths at the dash.
Could I take the CW light to the IG (+ve supply) and then just send the L to earth. (i.e. have light before the alternator rather than after it.)
I thought the L was a live supply which I was going to take for the electic choke but that doesn't work either. I guess I will have to wire this
another way or change to a manual choke.
Please someone fill me in before I strip my dash and rewire it.
Ta
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Mr G
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| posted on 9/7/05 at 07:51 PM |
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We used vauxhall 16v digital clocks with a nippon denso alternator (charade).
The Charge warning light would come on if you earthed the charge warning wire so the L terminal works on being earthed I pressume.
We wired in a seperate ignition feed off the column for the other terminal.
p.s This is the for Sale section 
[Edited on 9/7/05 by Mr G]
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pajsh
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| posted on 10/7/05 at 12:13 AM |
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Yes I goofed on the section. I didn't see it until I posted and I don't know if you can change it.
I must have got into it by looking at the threads and not realised where I was.
I did report it though.
Not sure I really understand your reply.
I think I am right in that the CW light should be after the alternator in the circuit rather than before with the L going to the light and then earth.
But would it work with the CW light before and L to earth. Easier to do with the setup I have at present.
And I guess there is no live feed for the electric choke either.
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Mr G
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| posted on 10/7/05 at 02:52 PM |
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Getting crossed wires now (literally  )
I'm not quite sure what you mean by saying after the alternator.
the 'L' terminal earths out when the charge warning light needs to come on, so you have at the dash end a ign + feed to the bulb, then a
wire going from the bulb to the 'L' terminal to be earthed out.
Depending on what nippon alternator you have I think some have choke feeds.
Cheers
G
Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a
car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes
and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it.
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 10/7/05 at 05:23 PM |
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F##k the haynes manual if it's the small alt as off diahatsu charade and suzuki vitara it needs 12v to exite the diode pack theres a dutch guy
on here called siert on his website he tells you how to wire it up
tony
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Mr G
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| posted on 10/7/05 at 06:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mad-butcher
F##k the haynes manual if it's the small alt as off diahatsu charade and suzuki vitara it needs 12v to exite the diode pack theres a dutch guy
on here called siert on his website he tells you how to wire it up
tony
We know it needs a + feed to exite it, pajsh has already mentioned that he knows the IG terminal takes a +. I've mentioned it also in my
reply.
We're now talking about the Charge warning lamp
Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a
car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes
and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it.
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pajsh
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| posted on 10/7/05 at 08:26 PM |
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What I mean by before or after is this. I'm a noobie at this game so please forgive me if this is gibberish
By before I mean
+ve ignition at dash > CW light > Alternator(IG) > (L)>Earth in engine bay. I understand this is how it works with the Bosch.
By after I mean
+ve ignition > Alternator (IG) > (L)CW light > Earth at dash.
In both cases the light is earthed and comes on if the alternator is not turning and producing a voltage.
I tried the latter today. i.e took the +ve suppy from the CW light to the IG connection and then the L to earth but it didn't work.
Sounds like I will have, as I put it, wire the light after the alternator and not before it, which will mean wiring the present ignition supply direct
to the IG and then taking a wire back from the L to the CW light and then to earth at the dash.
I just want to be sure the alternator is not FUBAR before I do, as all my looms are tidily wrapped and rivieted up. It should be OK though, as
it's brand new and not from the breakers.
As for the choke I can't see another connection so I'm checking Eay for manual stuff although I already have a cable so I might just strip
of the electric choke and make something to connect the wire to the brass arm. I'm going to change the twin Weber for Dellortos at some later
stage anyway I am just trying to get it in for SVA in August. (not that the CW light is an SVA item I know)
pajsh
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pajsh
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| posted on 10/7/05 at 08:29 PM |
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BTW I followed the treads before to the Dutch guys pages and whilst my alternator is the same as the one in his picture, he numbers the terminals but
doesn't say what you do with them. Not that I can see anyway.
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Dusty
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| posted on 10/7/05 at 09:45 PM |
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Pajsh, I bekieve you are right to take an ignition live to the IG terminal on the alternator. But you also take an ignition live to the ignition
warning light, then off the other contact of the ignition light to the L terminal of the alternator. With the alternator stationary L acts as a 0 volt
terminal and with the ignition on 12 volts is supplied to the other terminal of the light so it is lit. Once it is running the alternator supplys 12+
volts at the L terminal and via the charging circuit, 12+ volts at the ignition live so there is no potential difference, no current flows and the
light extinguishes.
[Edited on 10/7/05 by Dusty]
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Mr G
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| posted on 10/7/05 at 09:52 PM |
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I still think you've got the wrong end of the stick mate.
Are you under the impression that the IG terminal needs to be linked in with the CW light ?
Its there to accept a + feed from the ignition to get the alternator kicked in.
Its not supposed to be used in conjuction with the 'L' as part of the CW circuit.
The 'L' terminal is just used as an earth for your charging lamp (which then goes out as the alternator starts working and no earth)
Couple of post concerning charging system (and warning light) principle on older alternators and info on new ones.
quote:
Source of charging light voltage
Where is the charging light source voltage(dashboard indication of no charge from the alternator) derived from. Is it an indication of a changeover
within the regulator in the alternator or something else?
Reply by FIFER
It gets 12 v from an ignition switch live then goes via the bulb to the warning light connection on the alternator. I beleive it works something like
this.
Ignition on, bulb gets 12 v from ignition switch and earths through alternator.
Once engine is started, the alternator gets exitation from the 12v via bulb, then starts producing volts.
Once the volts reach the same as coming from ignition switch to bulb, the bulb dims and goes out, you have chargeing !!
It's something like that but the supply definately comes from the ignition via bulb to warning light connection on alternator.
hope this helps
REply by NS DEV:
Don't mean to confuse people here, as I am far from certain of this, but what Fifer said certainly was the case with older alternators, but I
ma not so sure now.
The bosch one on my Vaxuhall 16v (from 1991 Cav 16v) does NOT need the warning light wire connected in order to charge properly. It is still
connnected to an ignition switched 12v feed just the same, but the wire broke at the crimp ring where it connects to the alternator (years ago when
the engine was in my manta) and I drove it for ages with no connection like this (only half noticed that the charge light wasn't coming on when
i put the ign on without the car running)
I think there must be a transistor switch in the alternator which just earths the 12v warning light feed until the alternator is charging properly??
Certainly what Fifer said used to be the case, all the tractors at the farm and our old lorries used to show a dying alternator with a faint glow from
the light, but I think maybe this has changed now.
( I was having pretty much this conversation with a electronics engineer friend of mine yesterday because I want to use an LED for my charge warning,
which will not work if Fifer is correct (and I hasten to add as I previously thought) as it will not take back-voltage. However if the alternator just
switches to earth as I now suspect then there will be no problem)
Cheers
G
[Edited on 10/7/05 by Mr G]
Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a
car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes
and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it.
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pajsh
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| posted on 10/7/05 at 10:44 PM |
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Sorry guys but I'm not getting any wiser.
I did originally think that the L was just an earth for the CW light (as it was wired with the old Bosch and worked) but I tried this first and it
didn't work. Lights up if you earth the wire from the CW light to the engine/body but not if you connect to the L. I checked the continuity from
the B terminal to the alternator body and engine and this is OKso I know the body is earthed.
I guess Dusty is right in saying I've got to take +ve supply to the IG to put a field on the alternator and connect the ignition supply from the
CW light to the L but I don't see how this will earth the light.
Surely its got to earth somehow if it is to light up.
Thanks for trying but I think it must be FUBAR. I will try the above but if it doesn't work I'll take it back to the guy I bought it off.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 11/7/05 at 10:33 AM |
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This sounds like an overly complicated thread.
I have Nissan Micra alternator, believed to be same as you talk about.
3 connections to wire up;
1 = output to battery
2 = output to blue light
3 = main live (taken from output to battery) to energise the voltage stabiliser gubbins.
Excellent alternator choice as they are small and always give out 14V even during low revs to maintain battery power.
If charge light isnt working i would duess; a. it is OK and there isnt a problem (ie battery is charging OK), b. it is knackered.
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 11/7/05 at 06:34 PM |
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cheers darren thats exactly the way mines wired up. simple ain't it when you don't look for ways to complicate it
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pajsh
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| posted on 24/7/05 at 02:48 PM |
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Nippon Denso Alternators
Right, think I have it sorted for anyone who comes along after. Still don't understand how it works though.
The B terminal goes to the battery to charge it. No problem with that.
The IG terminal has an ingnition supply to the alterbator to make it "work".
The charge warning light has an ignition feed to it which then goes to the L terminal.
Seems to work OK now but I can't understand why you have to have two 12V ignition supplys going to the same device. The Bosch way seems much
more sensible having only the one via the CWL. The only reason I can think of it that the alternator will still charge if the CWL fails.
Someone suggested you take the IG from the B terminal but then this will be an always live supply not via the ignition which I think must be wrong as
it would drain the battery. Perhaps someone can advise on this
Hope this helps someone in the future.
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