Humanoid
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 posted on 19/5/04 at 09:10 PM |
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Ford Type 9 or Opel TDI gearbox with Saab motor..
Hi guys!
I'm currently welding my chassis but the day that I will put my engine into it is closing in.
I've choosen the egine already:
Saab LPT, a turbo with original 150 hp and 210 nm.
Now to the real problem, the gearbox. I have two choises:
1. Opel gearbox, probably one from a 2.2 TID as it is the strongest gearbox fitting to the engine.
2. Ford Type 9 with a Adaptor plate to make it fit to the Saab engine.
Well if I don't tune the car either of them will probably work... but you see, with this Saab engine you can tune it really well with just some
key-hits on a computer 
So from 150 hp and 210 nm to:
1. 220 hp and 320 nm
2. 265 hp and 370 nm
Now here is the problem,
Will the Ford Type 9 stand these forces?
As the Type 9 gearbox is much cheaper and smaller than a Opel gearbox.
The car weight will be around 700 KG. And use a Volvo 240 rear axle.
Maybe someone got some data on the Type 9 gearbox?
Best Regards
Henrik
(sorry for my english if it is bad  )
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ady8077
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| posted on 19/5/04 at 09:17 PM |
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Hi Henrik
The type 9 should be ok with your engine at standard tune, allot are used with zetecs and their about 160 bhp, you can get stronger internals from
quaife www.quaife.co.uk which they claim will cope with 275 bhp
Or if you want use a really strong box theirs always the T5 as fitted to 2wd cosworths
Adrian
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NS Dev
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| posted on 19/5/04 at 10:43 PM |
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Sorry to disagree, but a standard type 9 will most definitely NOT be ok with this engine in standard tune. There may be many zetecs out there making
similar power, but this is of little relevance, the torque at 210nm will break the 'box very quickly. To use the type 9 you will need a gearkit
in it and heavy duty mainshaft and layshft assemblies.
The Opel 'box which as you say goes straight on, would probably be the easier option. Don't know anything about this 'box strength
wise (but I do know it is a lot stronger than the type 9, as you say the diesel 2.2 is very torquey too so will put similar stress on the 'box,
you are thinking along the right lines here!).
Best place to find out would be www.mantaclub.org, the uk opel Manta owners club. There are a few Opel Manta's out there with Saab Turbo's
attached to Opel 'boxes so those people would be the best to ask.
[Edited on 19/5/04 by NS Dev]
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ady8077
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| posted on 20/5/04 at 04:21 PM |
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Hi
Why is 210nm excessive for a type nine?
the 2.9 v6 used it and had more, dont forget his car will be allot lighter than the donor and wheelspin takes alot of stress off the box
A vauxhall box might be simpler and i know a few XE owners use carlton boxes, maybe a 3.0 box would be strongest?
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James
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| posted on 20/5/04 at 04:29 PM |
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The V6 box isn't identical internally- has uprated layshaft bits IIRC.
James
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ady8077
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| posted on 20/5/04 at 04:42 PM |
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Hi James
Yes the V6 type 9 is the strongest, But as Henrik was suggesting using a type 9 with an adapter plate i assumed he was talking about the V6 version
because its input shaft is an inch longer
Adrian
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/5/04 at 04:46 PM |
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Yes James you are right, the V6 "uprated" type 9 used different layshaft, layshaft bearings and a modded casing to allow fitment of bigger
bosses to mount the layshaft bearings in. In any case the "uprated" type 9 was never used with the 2.9 v6. It was used with the 2.8 v6,
but was very marginal, most 5 speed Capri 2.8's have ropey gearboxes (mine did!) and the XR4i also blew gearboxes with some regularity(one of
the ones I drove did!), hence the use of the T5 'box on the cosworth 2wd.
A lot of people do use the Carlton 'box or 1800 manta 'box (the same, both Getrag 240), as I did when I built my 16v manta. This made
around 210nm of torque (xe engine on throttle bodies) and blew 3 of these gearboxes up in 5000 miles.
The 2.2 turbodiesel (Omega) 'box mentioned is a different 'box altogether, I am fairly sure it is a later version of the Getrag 265, as
fitted to the old manual Senator and Carlton GSI 24v.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/5/04 at 04:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ady8077
Hi James
Yes the V6 type 9 is the strongest, But as Henrik was suggesting using a type 9 with an adapter plate i assumed he was talking about the V6 version
because its input shaft is an inch longer
Adrian
Maybe, but the reason for the adaptor is to allow it to fit the Saab Engine!!
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ady8077
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| posted on 20/5/04 at 06:07 PM |
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Hi
I thought the early Mk3 Granadas used the Type 9?
I fully agree the type 9 was marginal in alot of fords, but in a 700 Kg car it will handle a lot more. They are also very easy to get modified to
handle even more
SSC are using a BGH box for their 225 bhp RT and Tim doesn't drive it gently :-)
As for using a Getrag 265, that is a very strong box and if it is standard fit to the 2.2 would probably be the best
As for the comment about the adapter plate, how would you use a 4 cyl box? I've only seen adapter plates fitted to V6 boxes using 4 cyl
bellhousings?
Adrian
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/5/04 at 10:20 PM |
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Hi Adrian,
yes the granada mk 3 used the type 9 briefly but the early mk 3 also used the 2.8 ( but are you thinking it was the 2.9 cos of the strange inlet
plenum, the early 2.8 granada mk 3's used an inlet chamber casting not unlike the 2.9 engine, it was a bit different but not like the 2.8
one)
The 2.9 and MT75 'box were introduced together. I also had a mk2 granada 2.8i with type 9 manual 5 speed, and have to say this wasn't too
bad (the synchro was shot on 2nd but that is irrelevant really!)
Anyhow, see where you are coming from on the using the v6 'box to give enough length for an adaptor plate, must admit I hadn't thought of
it that way before! Then that made me think and the obvious hit me, if you were to use the type 9 with the Saab engine you don't need an adaptor
plate!!!! You can use the off the shelf bellhousing as used to mount the Vauxhall 1.8 and 2.0 engines to the type 9! The bolt pattern is the same
(obviously as you can use the GM 'box with the Saab engine).
Cheers
Nat.
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garage19
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| posted on 21/5/04 at 06:16 AM |
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With a car that only weighs 600kg strengths of gearboxes/axles seem to be less critical?
My mate has a stryker with a 270bhp cossie lump in it and i was suprised to learn he runs it all through a stock escort axle with no known
breakages!
I assume that its because you are more likley to spin up and loose traction before the torque breaks anything??
Doug.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 21/5/04 at 07:04 AM |
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That's certainly true to a large extent, particularly with axles, but it also depends on the application. There are rally escorts around which
weigh in the high 700 to 800 kg range which break bits regularly due to the constant loss and regain of drive to each of the rear wheels, snapping
halfshafts etc.
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Humanoid
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| posted on 22/5/04 at 11:43 PM |
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Thanks guys!
I think I've decided, its going to be a Opel gearbox, first a cheap one for just testing and later on a 2.2 TDI, thanks again!
best regards
Henrik
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