slingshot2000
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| posted on 21/7/10 at 06:57 PM |
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Help needed on Zetec instal on a very, very small budget !
Hello everyone.
I am looking for help in getting a Ford Zetec engine to run in a Westfield kit-car. I would like to do this whilst keeping the Zetec running on as
much of the original Ford induction, fuel-injection and engine management system as possible. This Westfield was originally built in 1988, but has
never been finished or registered. I know that this will mean that it will have to go through an IVA inspection. As I take it, this means that the car
will have to comply with all the 2010 regulations, including exhaust emissions. Will this mean it will have to be fitted with a catalytic
convertor?
I did a very similar conversion about 12years ago. I fitted an 1.8litre Zetec into an Escort MK2. Both of these cars were built with 1.6litre
Cross-Flow engines fitted, so the conversion should be very similar.
This conversion was very rare at the time and normally only done by resorting to paying vast sums of cash to Dunell or Raceline. However at the time I
was a skint student and there was no-way I could afford any of their fancy fly-wheels, throttle bodies, sumps, clutches, water rails or any of the
other components everyone insisted were required.
I used an 1.8litre SierraCVH sump and oil pick-up pipe, only having to remove the small step in the sump to clear the Escort
cross-member/steering-rack. I used the Escort Zetec fly-wheel, but had it modified to take the Escort Crossflow ring gear. This allowed me to use the
MK2 starter motor. I could not find an exhaust manifold off the shelf but Ashley did offer to make me a one off if I would let them have the car with
the engine fitted for a week (and give them about £1250.00). I felt that they would be using my car to enable them to make a prototype for what I
could see would be a very popular conversion in years to come. Instead I purchased a selection of bends and collectors off them and built my own
4into2into1 manifold.
Having moved the battery to the boot I was able to mount an air-flow meter (with a K and N cone air-filter) to the near-side inner wing. I used a
piece of 21/2inch down-pipe and a piece of very stiff rubber flexi to take the air over the top of the camcover directly to the throttle body.
However, I was (and am I now) at a complete loss as to what engine bay loom, wiring harness and ecu I require.
Last time I did this I managed to find a guy in Sunderland who had done numerous similar conversions, but not into rear-wheel drive Fords. He supplied
me with a loom and ecu. He told me I had to add a threaded flang into the exhaust manifold to take the lambda sensor and I also managed to cobble
together a means by which I could fit a speed sensor into the speedo drive in the type 9, 5 speed that I had all ready fitted some years before. This
was done in a way that it still drove the speedo .
He even came and helped me fit these parts and made some cross connections into the Escort loom so that the original dashboard rev-counter and warning
lights all worked. the conversion was a brilliant success and everything that I had hoped. The car started off the key, sounded fantastic, ran
brilliantly and was economic.
Un-fortunately I have since been unable to contact him this time around. Last time the engine was a 1.8litre Zetec, but this time I would like to fit
a 2.0litre.
This is where I hope this forum and all the massed knowledge that it contains will be able to come to my rescue.
I am looking for any help that is available as regards to where I may find a suitable engine look/wiring harness for a Zetec. Which ecu I need and how
to identify it. I now understand that I will not be able to use the loom, harness or ecu from car with Fords PATS fitted. How do I identify these
parts.
I have read a lot of the post on this forum and I am sure that the knowledge that I seek is here or here-about. I will be in the market for these
parts in the very near future and I would be very grateful for any help that may be available.
Thanks
Jon
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dlatch
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| posted on 21/7/10 at 07:47 PM |
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hi jon
if you have not got all the standard ecu and injection gear all ready then its quite possible going for gsxr throttle bodies and megasquirt would end
up costing
about the same and will actually be much easier to fit.
loads of info on this forum about the throttle bodies and pretty every aspect of a zetec conversion. much of what you learn't from converting
the escort will apply to the westfield conversion with the only difference being a shortened sump rather than using the cvh sump.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 21/7/10 at 08:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by dlatch
hi jon
if you have not got all the standard ecu and injection gear all ready then its quite possible going for gsxr throttle bodies and megasquirt would end
up costing
about the same and will actually be much easier to fit.
loads of info on this forum about the throttle bodies and pretty every aspect of a zetec conversion. much of what you learn't from converting
the escort will apply to the westfield conversion with the only difference being a shortened sump rather than using the cvh sump.
I disagree 
ecu and key less than £25 posted
Loom and bit from a breakers same again.
I can run a standard zetec on the ford ecu with pats upto around 1997 and have change out of £50. 
It will also run better than you will ever get a Megasquirt. but I do agree that you will be a touch down on power.
In fast ford shoot outs a 2L with a four branch manifold and induction kit often gives 150bhp compared to 165bhp your megasquirt and throttle bodies
could give.
I will get around to backing this up in a few weeks.....
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coozer
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| posted on 21/7/10 at 08:20 PM |
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Hi Jon, I'm not too far away over the hill in Hetton. Your welcome to come and see my zetec install and talk about it.
LG,
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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big_wasa
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| posted on 21/7/10 at 08:31 PM |
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from the top.........
If your Iva'ing the car then the emisions will be bassed on the age of the engine if you can prove this.
So you may not need to get upto 2010 specs.
It is a little easier to wire up the pre pats ecu,
These have the code name Desk, Deep, Dewy for the 2L thats 1993 and 1994.
95 moves onto the first gen of pats but still uses the 60 pin eec-iv. You will need the key.
The antenna to read the key is only an extra four wires.
And two more for the status light.
Some time after this ford added a cauge to the ecu plug to stop people swapping the ecu over.
96 ish on moves onto the 104 pin eec-v this can still be run as above.
Ive got a 97 ecu with the code "Owls" in mine ive also done a few more with the same ecu. This also has the Obd2 functions so you can
connect a scanner to it and read the ecu.
99 acording to the ford Tis has the alarm also codded to the ecu.
Ive had one go at this ecu (owl5) but gave up with just the ecu.
I have got a full car comming next week to decode for some one so we will be having another go.
Its not as easy as giving instructions as ford changed the colours and pin numbers between model and spec.
If you get your self a copy of Autodata its a big help with working it out
The actual fit in the locost is another matter.
There are two manifolds. The standard plastic one fitted to every thing. This sits low and is in the way of the steering linkage. You can put an extra
uj in the shaft and move it around the manifold.
The early escorts and Fiesta's have an up and over alloy manifold. This is no where near the steering linkage but does stick through the
bonnet.
Ive modified a Ginneta / Griffin manifold so ive got it under the bonnet and clearing the steering linkage.
This is a vid of mine
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loggyboy
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| posted on 21/7/10 at 08:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by slingshot2000
This Westfield was originally built in 1988, but has never been finished or registered. I know that this will mean that it will have to go through an
IVA inspection. As I take it, this means that the car will have to comply with all the 2010 regulations, including exhaust emissions. Will this mean
it will have to be fitted with a catalytic convertor?
Jon
Depends on how you intend to register it, if as a new car (ie all new components, bar one recon as new), then yes it will be on current regs (I assume
this is unlikely if you are aiming for super low budget).
If you plan to register it based on a donor car then the age of the engine will count for emmision regs, which should be easy to achieve using the
standard ecu/intake/injection set up with the possible inclusion of cat, depending on age of engine.
The easiest and cheapers route will be to Q reg meaning the emmisions test will only be done on visable smoke. Will also mean you can pick and choose
the cheapers components and not have to worry about proving theyre from the donor or brand new.
[Edited on 21/7/10 by loggyboy]
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dlatch
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| posted on 22/7/10 at 01:07 AM |
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wasa
he will need inlet manifold, throttlebody injectors, airbox loads of sensors ect so £50 is optimistic 
if he had the donor then yeah for sure using standard stuff would be the way to go but having to source all the parts is as much hassle as getting the
gsxr setup sorted, i guess it will be whatever comes along at the right price
so much info on the conversion available now though and also many ways of cracking the nut 
[Edited on 22/7/10 by dlatch]
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big_wasa
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| posted on 22/7/10 at 06:01 AM |
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dlatch
I agree Its what ever you can source, I am not a huge fan of Ms and I have done a couple of sets of bike Tb's.
At my local breakers I can get an ecu if I can find one with a key, a loom and a maf for more like £25. Anything elts will be on the zetec.
All depends on how much you can do for your self.
One I built on a budget.
Vid
I dont think you will get even a v2 ecu for less than £150 and thats a build it your self job.
[Edited on 22/7/10 by big_wasa]
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coozer
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| posted on 22/7/10 at 06:58 AM |
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I dreamt this last night, how bizarre..
Warren, is the 1.8 Escort ECU easier to use than the Mondeo one? I was dreaming it didn't have the alarm/immobiliser present and was dead easy
to use!
Is that correct?
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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MikeR
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| posted on 22/7/10 at 07:09 AM |
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Also, are the 2.0l ecu's only workable on the 2.0l engine or can you swap 1.8 and 2.0 ecu's?
(very interested in this thread having a silvertop zetec, griffin inlet manifold, blacktop wiring harness sat waiting for me in the engine shed as
with a few cheap extra purchases it seems i may be able to get a running engine).
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big_wasa
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| posted on 22/7/10 at 12:09 PM |
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Escort also would have pats after 94 same deal as the mondeo .
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big_wasa
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| posted on 22/7/10 at 12:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Also, are the 2.0l ecu's only workable on the 2.0l engine or can you swap 1.8 and 2.0 ecu's?
(very interested in this thread having a silvertop zetec, griffin inlet manifold, blacktop wiring harness sat waiting for me in the engine shed as
with a few cheap extra purchases it seems i may be able to get a running engine).
It would start and run but I can not say how well.
The 2L on a 1.8 with 2L cams may not be far of, the 130 spec used the Tb and cams from the 2L.
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MikeR
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| posted on 22/7/10 at 01:53 PM |
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I've got the 130 1.8 engine - hence my curiosity. Perhaps I should just get a 2.0l engine and swap over the modified sump etc.
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slingshot2000
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| posted on 22/7/10 at 10:52 PM |
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Thanks for all your interest and help. Let me see if I can respond in order.
Steve, I would love to pop over for a look-see and a chat, give me a call when you know you are going to have some spare time. 07730893929.
Big_wasa, I was warned ofline that you may be in touch (Mike Ramsdale). You have obviously done a lot of research into this and I hope that you will
not get sick of me asking questions in the coming weeks. The set up in your yellow car looks (and sounds fantastic). I dont know if I have the
patience or skill to pick apart and trace a harness. I will get a copy of the Autodata book and have a think about it. It has been pointed out to me
that the original factory Westfield Zetecs basically had a FiestaRS1800 engine, loom and ecu etc stuck under the bonnet. Thinking back I have been
told that a Fiesta mk3 has a loom, ecu that I can use. If this is true I can get my hands on a complete RS1800 for £90. I should be able to rob this
and get some cash back for the remains even if I have to resort to weighing it in. I will be in touch.
Loggyboy. I had hoped to fit a brand new Zetec from ebay (£850ish), and go for a brand new reg. However I am having to be realistic. I can see that
the car will never look brand new, plus I need all the money I can get hold of for a patent application I am about to file(£000s++). This is car is
going to have to be completed on what-ever scraps i can find. If you know anyone who wants a cheap-ish re-wire (for cash) let me know.
As I dont have a donor car it looks like I will be hoping to get the car registered with a similar age to whatever engine I end up fitting. I want to
avoid a Q-plate if at all possible.
Thanks again for all your help, please watch out for developments.
Jon
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big_wasa
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 05:49 AM |
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Jon wiring ecu's is my thing. I just cant map them
ford spent £$£$£$ on there ecu development . So plenty good enough for me....
Dont let pats put you of upto a 97. but an early rs is well worth the £90.
give is a shout if I can help I will.
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slingshot2000
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| posted on 19/8/10 at 08:25 PM |
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Time for an update. I will be collecting a complete Fiesta RS1800 on Sunday. After meeting Steve and viewing his installation, I have decided to strip
the enrire loom from the Fiesta and use as much of it as I can in the Westfield. I intend to remove the existing wiring from the Westfiled and use as
much of the Fiesta as possible, including the steering wheel and column, associated switches and wiring to all the lights and dash board. I feel that
I have more chance of succes doing this, rather than trying to graft the Zetec engine harness into an amature built 22year old Westfield harness. I am
also hoping to collect a type 9 5-speed from Catatomic at the same time. I hope to be able to really make some progress in the near future, thanks
again for all you help. And please watch out for more questions, all you help is greatly appreaciated.
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slingshot2000
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| posted on 22/8/10 at 10:55 PM |
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zetec / type9 starter motor
I picked up the Fiesta today and then headed over to meet Simon (Catatomic) to collect a type 9 gearbox. It was great to meet Simon, he seems like a
really good guy and it was a shame we couldn't have stayed and chatted to him longer.
Anyway, here is the next question. The Fiesta's gearbox has been removed and is in the boot, so there is no way I can presently get the Zetec
to run in the car. It seems a bit of a waste of time to refit the gearbox just so that I can get the motor to run. I therefore intend to fit just the
type 9 bell housing and fit the starter that I will eventually be using in any case.
One snag, I don't know which 'off the shelf' starter this is !
Can anyone point me in a Locost routr to find such a starter, or do i just pop to my local Motorfactor and buy a recon one ?
I do have a little more news to add to the Fiesta RS1800 story, but it has been a long day and I am shattered. Thanks again for any help.
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