scootz
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 08:08 AM |
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Live Axle (Escort) Limits...
I'm guessing the escort live-axle (like everything) has it's torque-limits!
I remember seeing figures somewhere for its use on a lightweight Seven-style car, but can't find them!
Can anyone help?
Also, what is the weakest point in the assembly?
It's Evolution Baby!
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beaver34
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 08:54 AM |
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i would like to know this,
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scootz
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 09:03 AM |
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"And my wolf pack... it grew by one. So there... there were two of us in the wolf pack... I was alone first in the pack, and then Beaver34
joined in later".
It's Evolution Baby!
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carpmart
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 09:32 AM |
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OK, I'm going to give you some background to how I have used the English axle which is not a precise scientific answer, like it will take this
much torque, more some examples so you get a feel for its limits based on my direct experience.
My Fury ended up with a turbo charged pinto engine in it running a 3.89 diff in an English axle with standard half shafts. I ran slicks on occasions
with it and whilst I never launched it down a proper drag strip, I regularly used to hard launch the car with no issues. I had 181 rwhp and being
turbo charged, it was quite torquey, but the axle was very reliable.
I did however break a half shaft on a track day. This was before the car was turbo charged so just a standard 2.0 pinto. I think the reason for this
was incorrectly re-installed half shafts. On inspection of the breakage, it was clear from the way the shaft was slightly twisted, I had mounted the
shaft in the wrong side of the diff to the one it came out of! Lesson learned there!
I just at the weekend acquired a Striker which again has a live axle, this time being driven by a ZX12 engine. I have no concerns and know that it
will be reliable so I'm a happy man!
I hope this non scientific answer is of some value!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack 
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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turboben
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 09:51 AM |
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I ran 10.7 on a stock engish with a 4.1 lsd a few weeks ago. Must be 300bhp+, not dynoed it yet. 580 kg (ish plus me) using 2nd gear to pull
away(55mph)
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Andy D
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 10:01 AM |
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If my memory serves me well.. Westfield quoted me a 190bhp limit when I built my car ten years ago.
I think it probably depends on what the car is being used for though. I've been putting 170bhp through slick tyres for the past few years with
no problems. Trackdays only, no dragstrip type standing starts.
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beaver34
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 10:09 AM |
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would they be stronger with a diff in there?
what can you upgrade on them? or what actully breaks
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carpmart
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 10:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
would they be stronger with a diff in there?
what can you upgrade on them? or what actully breaks
Not sure I understand your question. The axle houses a differential (diff) and the shafts that take rotation to the wheels. Therefore they have to
have a differential to work!
In terms of what breaks, the crown wheel and pinion (actually the teeth mainly) and the half shafts can break but there can be all sorts of other
things that need to be looked at. Bearings, the pre-load etc can all lead to noisy axles.
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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beaver34
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 10:33 AM |
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sorry i missed the lsd part out,
are there uprated half shafts out there? or shot peening the items? although ill wait untill it breaks
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carpmart
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 10:47 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
sorry i missed the lsd part out,
are there uprated half shafts out there? or shot peening the items? although ill wait untill it breaks
Most people who need an axle capable of more torque will either go Atlas or for one of the Volvo ones!
There are after market shafts available which are supposed to be stronger.
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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beaver34
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 10:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
sorry i missed the lsd part out,
are there uprated half shafts out there? or shot peening the items? although ill wait untill it breaks
Most people who need an axle capable of more torque will either go Atlas or for one of the Volvo ones!
There are after market shafts available which are supposed to be stronger.
right ill see how it goes, the cars are only light so should be better than the heavy escorts which there normaly in
thanks
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mcerd1
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 11:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I'm guessing the escort live-axle (like everything) has it's torque-limits!
what are you planning now ????
there are normaly a few rally spec 'baby atlas' axles for sale (fleebay etc....) - they are close to your normal budget 
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andrew
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 11:34 AM |
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i put 300plus hp through mine snaps halfshafts like carrots wears teeth on pinion rapidly but axle tube can be plated to make stronger , am putting up
with it till i get round to changing it for somthing else , you can get two piece halfshafts which are really strong but costly but the weak link is
the diff ,
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beaver34
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 12:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andrew
i put 300plus hp through mine snaps halfshafts like carrots wears teeth on pinion rapidly but axle tube can be plated to make stronger , am putting up
with it till i get round to changing it for somthing else , you can get two piece halfshafts which are really strong but costly but the weak link is
the diff ,
what kind or torque?
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scootz
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 12:26 PM |
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Those figures quoted are a good bit less than I thought 
I'm not planning anything just now Robert... just trying to expand my brain-box a little.
It's Evolution Baby!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 12:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I'm not planning anything just now Robert... just trying to expand my brain-box a little.
liar - your always planning something.....
btw - hows the re-build going ?
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coozer
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 01:07 PM |
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Theres tons and tons of old skool Escorts out with all sorts of engines and power levels. Standard and uprated axles.
THIS ONE! is featured in the current Classic Ford and has a very HD axle indeed. There's
no limits with the right money!
[Edited on 26/10/10 by coozer]
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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procomp
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 02:18 PM |
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Hi
Standard axle will take 250Hp ( bit irrelevant ) with 185 Lb Ft torque. This is as run in one of our customers Westfields with semi sticky tyres. But
the same setup with Yoko 048's is no problem. The weak link is the shafts but that's a plus point as they are the cheapest and easiest
parts to replace and save buggering up other components.
Mind we ain't broke one yet even with the setup we run. If we think we might we move up to the Lada axle which is far stronger as standard.
Cheers Matt
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daviep
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 03:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
quote:
Originally posted by andrew
i put 300plus hp through mine snaps halfshafts like carrots wears teeth on pinion rapidly but axle tube can be plated to make stronger , am putting up
with it till i get round to changing it for somthing else , you can get two piece halfshafts which are really strong but costly but the weak link is
the diff ,
what kind or torque?
Engine torque doesn't really matter when talking about what a diff will take, torque at the propshaft will have been multiplied up by the
gearbox.
The technical bit behind it:
Horsepower is a function of rpm and torque, the propshaft speeds on a car will all be similar presuming a relativley normal diff ratio and wheel size
so horsepower can be compared directly to torque produced at the gearbox output.
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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multanen
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 03:29 PM |
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Matt, I believe you can put Lada shafts to english axle. They are almost bolt-on. Some shafts are 2-3mm too long so people grind them shorter
(clearence-to-diff thingy).
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beaver34
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 03:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi
Standard axle will take 250Hp ( bit irrelevant ) with 185 Lb Ft torque. This is as run in one of our customers Westfields with semi sticky tyres. But
the same setup with Yoko 048's is no problem. The weak link is the shafts but that's a plus point as they are the cheapest and easiest
parts to replace and save buggering up other components.
Mind we ain't broke one yet even with the setup we run. If we think we might we move up to the Lada axle which is far stronger as standard.
Cheers Matt
how long has it run like this? is it road or track car?
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scootz
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 03:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
Liar - your always planning something.....
Btw - hows the re-build going ?
Seriously - for once I am trying to keep things as simple as possible!
I got the cam-cover and exhaust tarted-up by Mark at Gilmerton... whilst he's been at those I've been degreasing the engine and removing
an incredible amount of baked-on crud from the exhaust side. Will probably get the block painted in the next couple of days. Other than that I just
need to get the wheels refurbed, put the new tyres on and rewire the bugger!
Everything else can be done as I go along.
Had hoped to enjoy some of the better-autumn days with it, but will have to wait till Spring!
It's Evolution Baby!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 04:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
cam-cover and exhaust tarted-up by Mark at Gilmerton
shinny bits 
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
....and rewire the bugger!
you fancy doing a scimitar once your ones on the road - at this rate I'll need to put it together just to replace my tintop......
[Edited on 26/10/2010 by mcerd1]
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scootz
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| posted on 26/10/10 at 05:35 PM |
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Sorry... should have said - get the car rewired!
Thanks to all who contributed to the thread!
It's Evolution Baby!
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procomp
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| posted on 27/10/10 at 09:20 AM |
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Hi
the cars have run like that for 20 years if we go back to the early Westfields we developed. The one customer one mentioned above is a sprint car. So
that's doing standing starts every time it's run maybe 10 per meeting Inc tyre warming.
The secret is in the diff build and getting rid of the collapsible spacer as that's what destroys the crown-wheel and pinions once the preload
backs off.
Cheers Matt
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