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Author: Subject: BHP/」 what kind of solutions are there?
Promai Joe

posted on 18/5/11 at 07:53 PM Reply With Quote
BHP/」 what kind of solutions are there?

Hi
Basically I understand the principles of tuning, but have no practical skills yet. My car is powered with a 2litre pinto, naturally aspirated in a single carb (size unknown, sorry for sounding dumb is there an easy way to determine the size?).
Anyway the question is, how best to spend money attempting to get more bhp? If you have any tried and tested ideas please post next to the estimated cost. Reliability is also important to me.
」1-」100
」100 - 」250
」250 - 」500
」500 - 」1000
」1000+ (expect not to see the word pinto much)
I have always fancied a supercharger after watching mad max as a kid, any ideas

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Jon Ison

posted on 18/5/11 at 07:59 PM Reply With Quote
Why do you want more power ?

If its to go "faster" for the 1st 」500 or so spent it would-be better spent on the chassis/car set up than the engine.

I ran pintos years back, to get real power you need real money, personally bite the bullet and fit a red top for instant grunt.

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zilspeed

posted on 18/5/11 at 08:07 PM Reply With Quote
Bear in mind that a 2.0 Pinto using the standard carb, ford cam, no real tuning as such, but well built and tuned can make 135bhp in FF2000 or Sports 2000 trim.
Standard power in the front of your MKIV Cortina back in the day ?
101bhp, same engine, same spec.

The sensible thing to do is make sure it is in good order and well serviced, then take it for a proper setup on the rollers to optimise jetting and ignition timing.
Maybe even fit a vernier pulley at little cost to allow some monor fiddling with cam timing.
That would all make sure it's optimised to be all it can be.
101bhp vs 135bhp form the same engine spec ?






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littlefeller

posted on 18/5/11 at 08:30 PM Reply With Quote
the most cost effective bang for your buck is n2o
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Confused but excited.

posted on 18/5/11 at 08:32 PM Reply With Quote
From what I have read on here, the cheapest way to get more power from a pinto, is to swap it for a1.8 zetec with 2.0 litre cams.





Tell them about the bent treacle edges!

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pajsh

posted on 18/5/11 at 08:37 PM Reply With Quote
I've been through this one as many have and so I'll offer my limited experience. Costs add up quickly with small things so there is no cheap fix.

Problem with most answers you get are they are woolly and not much help. Whilst I respect Johns advice and he's right but, without some hard facts it's not easy to make a choice.

I did consider a more modern and lighter engine (Zetec/Duratec) but for several reasons I stuck with a Pinto

1. I already had a 1.6 Pinto so the swap to 2.0l was easy and didn't involve any changes to mounting, exhaust, electronics, fueling or drive shafts.
2. I'm learning about engines so wanted the simplicity of the Pinto
3. I didn't want to mess with injection, cats and related electronics and engine maps.

So I re-built a 205 block and spent roughly the following

Kent RL21 cam & vernier pulley - 」200 (2nd hand cam)
Dellorto 40's - 」300 with trumpets, socks, manifold & linkages
Headwork - 」400 (cash ;-)) inlet & exhaust ported, valves re-seated & replaced
Megajolt 3D - 」180 including trigger wheel, coil pack, EDIS & sensors
Lightened Flywheel - 」65
Tune up on rolling road 」250 (cash ;-))

Add that to all the small bits like gaskets, ARP rod & flywheel bolts, chopped sump, etc. and I spent at least 」1,500.

Personally I'd start with a cam change then look at maybe a bike carb set up after that.

Changing to a Duratec may have cost less I guess but the extra costs in changing the car to suit the engine and the potential electronic and emission problems put me off. Maybe someone will throw some costs at the modern option.





I used to be apathetic but now I just don't care.

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Mr Whippy

posted on 18/5/11 at 08:40 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Confused but excited.
From what I have read on here, the cheapest way to get more power from a pinto, is to swap it for a1.8 zetec with 2.0 litre cams.


tbh very true, for all I love the pinto it's performance is really lame compared to a modern engine of the same size, it's only true benifit is the simplicity and easy emissions test





Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet

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mcerd1

posted on 18/5/11 at 09:00 PM Reply With Quote
the zetec will give you issues in the dax chassis (assuming its the pinto chassis)
I beleve the back of the engine ends up hard against the chassis rail and gives you no room for the thremostat/water rail - on the dax zetec chassis they leave a bit more room at this point - obviously ther are ways round this but its a bit of a PITA
don't know how easily a duratec would fit as I've not seen anyone do this swap in a rush yet....
the redtop/xe swap has been done plenty of times though



I vote for the pinto aswell - but then I would because thats what I'm putting in my rush

The head is were the power is in the pinto - I'd go for a cam first (newmans, piper or kent) then carbs, then porting/valves and a bit of a skim to up the CR, ignition, full bottom end ballance/lightening - then more CC's

twin Dellorto's or webbers are quite pricy, but bike carbs will give you the same bang for less bucks



I went way OTT and spent more than I'm going to admit to on mine and the car isn't even on the road yet - I've gone for the all steel bottom end etc.... its basicaly a 2.1 NA cossie with a pinto head now, the bottom end should be good for 9000rpm+
only thing I havn't done is port the head, but that can wait till its been on the road a wee while

quote:
Originally posted by pajshChanging to a Duratec may have cost less I guess but the extra costs in changing the car to suit the engine and the potential electronic and emission problems put me off. Maybe someone will throw some costs at the modern option.

^^ but since his cars on the road he could run the duratec on carbs if he wanted (might be a bit of a waste though...)


[Edited on 18/5/2011 by mcerd1]

[Edited on 18/5/2011 by mcerd1]





-

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littlefeller

posted on 18/5/11 at 09:01 PM Reply With Quote
take a look on some of the capri forums, its free advise
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mark chandler

posted on 18/5/11 at 09:15 PM Reply With Quote
The standard ford cam is actually pretty good, the best thing you can do is buy the book on tuning these by David Visard, get some steel burrs from ebay, vernier cam adjuster and a head skim, I assume you already have a banana exhaust.

A day fettling the head, 1/4" skim and set the cam up with 7 degrees advance will get you near 135BHP so 30% more for ~」200.

Regards Mark

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Jon Ison

posted on 18/5/11 at 09:41 PM Reply With Quote
One thing not mentioned yet, try to find a set of roller followers the pinto set up is agricultural, roller followers free up a bit of power and are soooooo much more kinder on the cam, if your upgrading the cam go for a cross drilled one and ditch the crap spray bar, as for porting the ports are already pretty big, so a clean up is pretty much all that is required unless you want to get serious in which case you need to be adding material to the inlet ports not taking it away.

Back in the 80's I had a all singing and dancing Dave Brookes downdraft head, fancy rimflow big valves, emerald cam, steel bum end, the engine was high maintenance low power compared to the red tops around at the same time.

Personally if I had a pinto under the bonnet I would leave as is, any under the bonnet upgrade would see the pinto engine ousted, but that's just me.

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JoelP

posted on 18/5/11 at 09:52 PM Reply With Quote
you could do a budget bike engine swap for under a grand. Maybe 」300 for a zx9 or fireblade, 」300 on an exhaust, 」200 on prop and adapter, and the change on fittings.

I managed a BEC transplant by myself with little technical knowledge, certainly never rebuilt engines or anything like that, in just a month or so IIRC.






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iank

posted on 18/5/11 at 10:10 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
Why do you want more power ?

If its to go "faster" for the 1st 」500 or so spent it would-be better spent on the chassis/car set up than the engine.




And the driver, for 99% of people going onto a decent driver course will save seconds per lap.





--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous

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matt_gsxr

posted on 18/5/11 at 10:26 PM Reply With Quote
The great thing about older engines (my gsxr1100 is a 95 engine) is that there are loads of people with them who are moving to newer engines.

Why not look out for a spicy Pinto that someone else has already put money into and then moved on. I would imagine that they are pretty common and must be very cost effective.

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zilspeed

posted on 19/5/11 at 06:07 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
The standard ford cam is actually pretty good, the best thing you can do is buy the book on tuning these by David Visard, get some steel burrs from ebay, vernier cam adjuster and a head skim, I assume you already have a banana exhaust.

A day fettling the head, 1/4" skim and set the cam up with 7 degrees advance will get you near 135BHP so 30% more for ~」200.

Regards Mark


+1
(Seeing as we're pretty much saying the same stuff. Total spend, very little. don't spend shedloads. Make sure the engine works, the chassis works and the driver works.)






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scudderfish

posted on 19/5/11 at 06:26 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
Why do you want more power ?

If its to go "faster" for the 1st 」500 or so spent it would-be better spent on the chassis/car set up than the engine.




And the driver, for 99% of people going onto a decent driver course will save seconds per lap.


+1

http://www.carlimits.com






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alistairolsen

posted on 19/5/11 at 07:30 AM Reply With Quote
Either buy a good pinto someone else has bankrupted themselves building or get rid of the archaic boat anchor altogether for something with a proper valvetrain and fuel injection.

The head/manifolding is where the power is made in any engine, everything else merely facilitates that. The pinto is exceptionally poor as a starting point given the availability of good, low mileage modern engines IMO.





My Build Thread

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FASTdan

posted on 19/5/11 at 08:27 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pajsh

Changing to a Duratec may have cost less I guess but the extra costs in changing the car to suit the engine and the potential electronic and emission problems put me off. Maybe someone will throw some costs at the modern option.


Our Duratec swap from a Pinto:

2.3 Engine 」350 (ok so we got a bargain, expect maybe 」500 for a 2.0 normally?)
RWD Motorsport Mechanical (not Hydraulic) Bellhousing, Release Arm, Clutch, Flywheel Combo 」600段sh
Late ZX9R 40mm Carbs 」80 (TPS type)
Manifold + Fitting Kit for Carbs 」170
Convert Pinto 4 branch to suit Duratec approx 」100 (paying someone to do it and buying flange)
Megajolt + EDIS + Coilpack 」240段sh
Engine Mounts 」85
Cooling System (mech thermostat, alu tube, silicone hose etc) 」120段sh

Total 」1745段sh. Obviously we saved a fair amount on that in making engine mounts, manifolds etc. Only thing not included is the sump, I知 guessing the cheapest off the shelf option would be Flakmonkeys mild steel kit but I don稚 have a price for that. We modded the standard one which cost nothing other than my time. You could also save a 」200-300 by economizing on the sourcing of ignition and the clutch/flywheel set-up.

Not the cheapest conversion when you compare to some of the turbo options (200SX etc) but for a very non-stressed, incredibly smooth engine putting out circa 200bhp I think its great.





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scootz

posted on 19/5/11 at 08:32 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
Why not look out for a spicy Pinto that someone else has already put money into and then moved on. I would imagine that they are pretty common and must be very cost effective.


+1





It's Evolution Baby!

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scootz

posted on 19/5/11 at 08:32 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by alistairolsen
Either buy a good pinto someone else has bankrupted themselves building...


+1 (or is it 2)





It's Evolution Baby!

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Toniq-r

posted on 19/5/11 at 08:37 AM Reply With Quote
Just blow your budget and get a Hayabusa then bolt on a supercharger
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coozer

posted on 19/5/11 at 10:17 AM Reply With Quote
Theres tons of cheap Rover V8's lying around...





1972 V8 Jago

1980 Z750

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alistairolsen

posted on 19/5/11 at 11:34 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Theres tons of cheap Rover V8's lying around...


there's a reason for that....





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FASTdan

posted on 19/5/11 at 12:01 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by alistairolsen
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Theres tons of cheap Rover V8's lying around...


there's a reason for that....


LOL





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Doctor Derek Doctors

posted on 19/5/11 at 12:33 PM Reply With Quote
The problem is that you're trying to tune an engine that was pretty crap to start with.

Best thing to do would be to start with something decent. A full AB Performance 919 Fireblade set-up including the Billet sump and prop adaptor went for 」650 on ebay last weekend, that would have given you more power to start with than a Pinto is capable of with a lot of tuning. It would have only reqiuired a prop' and exhaust to get running.

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