Robbie 2B
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| posted on 13/9/11 at 08:48 PM |
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Conversion from Pinto to Duratec
Hi all
Firstly, thanks for a great site which has been an inspiration when doing the conversion
I have been swapping engines in a Robin Hood 2B. The conversion from Pinto to Duratec is completed but I am having no joy getting the thing to run.
The engine is from a Mk 3 Mondeo and is complete with wiring loom, ECU, chipped key, transponder and clock. The engine is completely standard and is
installed with the inlet and all sensors and switches as fitted on the Mondeo.
Having connected the battery the following is happening:
Pump pump and ignition relays energise
Fuel pump operates, priming the fuel rail and stops
However the engine will not turm over
The LED in the clock lights for a couple of seconds then rapidly flashes
After flashing a PATS fault of 2 times 2 flashes is being indicated
I have cleaned the earth on the wires from the ECU and also the earth from the battery junction box
All connects have been checked and double checked and the starter motor works fine when fed directly from the battery. It seems that the ECU (Central
Junction Box) does not appear to be giving the correct signals. Its a long shot, but does anyone know what a 2.2 fault actually means on a Mk 3 Mondeo
and how can it be rectified? On a Transit it is stated to be a ROM error - no ECU ID stored (duff ECU)
Before I go for a replacement ECU can anyone shed some light on the issue or am I just digging a big hole for myself? Has anyone had this problem
before with a Duratec conversion.
Any help or advice gratefully recieved.
Robbie
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Madinventions
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| posted on 13/9/11 at 08:57 PM |
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quote:
The PATS system has it’s own self diagnosis test procedure which
flashes codes. The PATS LED will flash quickly for 1 minute, and then
start flashing the fault code as follows:-
Example : code 31
3 Flashes
1 Flash
Three seconds delay
Repeat of code for 10 times
Code Descriptions :-
Code 11 Transceiver not connected
Code 12 Transceiver
Code 13 No key data received
Code 14 Part of the transponder code received
Code 15 Wrong transponder key
Code 21 Less than the minimum keys required programmed
Code 22 Failed diesel pump control unit identification
Code 23 The response code between pump control unit & powertrain
LED = Always ON or OFF
Check the fuse 15 (5 amp)
Failed diesel pump? Are you sure that's the right ECU?
Ed.
Mojo build diary: http://www.madinventions.co.uk
Solo music project: Syrrenfor http://www.reverbnation.com/syrrenfor
View my band website:
http://www.shadowlight.org.uk
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk/
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Robbie 2B
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| posted on 13/9/11 at 10:16 PM |
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Ed
Many thanks for the instant response.
The ECU was on the end of the loom when I picked the engine up and did not appear to have been touched. The ECU details on the bar code label are:
RAID
1S7F-12A650-DD
I have not been able to confirm what a 22 Code is on a petrol Mondeo is but on a Jaguar with the Duratec engine it appear to be the same as a Transit,
paste link below.
http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/n9320h/2010-03-11_151245_code_16.pdf
Thanks again
Robbie
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johnemms
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| posted on 13/9/11 at 10:39 PM |
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Stupid idea .. but is your battery fully charged..?
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Madinventions
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| posted on 13/9/11 at 11:20 PM |
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Ok, found some more info which probably confirms your diagnosis:
quote:
Make: ford
Model: mondeo
Year: 1998
Engine: 1.8 16v
the PATS flash Code 22 = Non-volatile memory configuration failure.
Vehicle does not start. ( this will be in conjunction with fault code - B2141 )
This indicates a fault with the vehicles PCM ( Powertrain Control Module )
this is either an internal fault with the PCM or a power/ground fault to the PCM
The wiring must be checked to the PCM before replacing the PCM
The new PCM must be programmed through fords IDS laptop and 2 keys must be availble before installing the new PCM
Sounds like the 'power/ground fault to the PCM' is the worth checking before replacing the ECU?
Ed.
Mojo build diary: http://www.madinventions.co.uk
Solo music project: Syrrenfor http://www.reverbnation.com/syrrenfor
View my band website:
http://www.shadowlight.org.uk
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk/
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FASTdan
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| posted on 14/9/11 at 06:27 AM |
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Sorry I cant help, but fair play for installing the factory management etc, cant have been easy 
NEW danST WEBSITE NOW LIVE! Bike carbs, throttle bodies and more......
http://www.danstengineering.co.uk/
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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hughpinder
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| posted on 14/9/11 at 12:12 PM |
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The only time I've had similar problems its been due to a combination of low battery power/knackered battery and poor earth. If you can, try a
jump lead direct from battery earth to starter earth, and stick the battery on to charge so its got enough juice.
If you've got another car you could try a jump start with a set of leads from that.
Regards
Hugh
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Robbie 2B
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| posted on 14/9/11 at 12:40 PM |
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Many thanks for all the posts.
In response to the various points
Battery - fully charged and also tried using jump leads from battery lifted from wife's car. The battery spins the starter motor if directly
connected.
Ground - The ground wires from the ECU, battery junction box and other Mondeo ground wires have been taken back to chassis. Paint scraped off chassis
(mild steel) before rings attached.
The engine came from a 2001 Mk 3 2.0 Mondeo, it is concluded that the ECU faults be the same as a 1998 Mk 2 1.8.
I have not used the Mondeo instrument cluster and thus have not connected; the electrical supply, battery warning light, oil pressure warning light,
tacho supply or water temperature gauge/alarm wires. Will the lack of an electrical supply to the instrument cluster possible cause this problem?
There does not appear to be a drawing of the instrument cluster internal wiring on the FORD TIS. Could this be the likely cause of this problem?
Any further asistance gratefully recieved.
Robbie
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hughpinder
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 07:33 AM |
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So the starter turns if you put power directly to it, but not via the ignition. I'd check the starter solenoid and solenoid signal wire next,
then check the 'turn starter motor' signal direct from the key switch(obviously the 'live' circuit is ok as the fuel pump
primes). Can you get someone to hold the key in the position where the engine should be turning and run a wire directly from the battery to the
starter solenoid 'start' connector? If you apply power to the starter motor solenoid directly, and a start signal also direct from the
battery, does it sound like its moving? If not the starter won't engage and the engine won't turn.
If its stuck from lack of use, I've freed them up in the past by smacking them with a lump hammer while the powers on (disclaimer here... All
the ones I've ever done have been on cars like the rover P6, don't leave the power on too long)
Regards
Hugh
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Robbie 2B
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| posted on 18/9/11 at 08:11 PM |
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Hugh et al
Just to update you.
Still no joy!! All earths, fuses, relays and connections remade, checked and tested this weekend. PATS's LED still flashing 2.2 code.
When the coil of the starter relay is wired directly to ground and the ignition switch is turned to start; the engine turns and fires but will not
continue to run as the fuel pump is not getting a signal to run.
It would appear that it is a fault with the PCM or, as the starter relay is grounded through the PCM, a fault with the yellow & black wire from
the starter relay to the PCM being grounded.
As far as I can make out there is only one live feed to the PCM through Fuse 32 (3 amp). Is there any other live or switched supplies to the PCM
which have to be reinstated?
Can anyone shine any light onthis problem? My will to live is slowly drifting away.
Robbie
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pjay
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| posted on 27/9/11 at 08:53 PM |
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Hi Robbie - only just seen your post. It may not help but I've still got the PCM, key and transponder thingy that came with my Mondeo engine
(2.0L) - CJBA.
No idea whether it works etc. but you're more than welcome to it since I was thinking of binning it. I'm near Camberley, is that any good
to you from Redhill?
Don't lose hope!
Cheers
Pete
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Robbie 2B
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| posted on 29/9/11 at 05:13 PM |
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Pete
Thanks for the post. It would be a great help. The ECU I have is:
Name: RAID
Part No. 1S7F-12A650-DD
I am driving to Salisbury tomorrow (Friday) morning and returning Sunday morning. I normally take the shortcut between the M3 and M4 through
Bracknell. If I can pick it up it would be ideal.
If you give me a u2u.
Many thanks
Robbie
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pjay
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 posted on 29/9/11 at 06:06 PM |
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Looking promising, mines got the same info!
I'll U2U my mobile number - if you give me a call we can discuss and hopefully set up a time. I'm thinking Sunday would be best but
depends on the time.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 29/9/11 at 06:39 PM |
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Ive not done a duratec yet, I have done a few zetec's upto 1999.
The ecu controles the starter inhibit relay so unles the Pats is happy it wont turn over. But the fuel pump will still prime.
The 1999 eec-v Has a permant live (orange), a switched live (green/yellow) plus five earths to the pcm.
How are you powering the Pats Antena ? There are four wires. Power RX TX earth.
Looks like your to far for me to pop over, shame I doubt its the pcm at fault unless its got wet.
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Robbie 2B
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| posted on 29/9/11 at 08:37 PM |
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Thanks for the info.
Starting with the PATS transceiver:
No. 1 Green/Blue - Supply is taken from the ignition switch (hot in start and run) through a fuse
No. 2 Black/Green - Ground taken direct to battery negative
No. 3 Grey/Orange - Taken to pin 12 on the original connector C12
No. 4 White/Green - Taken to pin 6 on the original connector C12
Starter relay
The coil of the relay is being feed with a live supply when the ignition is turned to start. It is not being ground through the black/yellow line
which goes to the PCM. If this line is ground, the starter motor works and the car kicks over until the fuel pressure is exhausted.
Power to the PCM
The hot at all time supply, line numbers 29-RE8, (orange/yellow) PCM pin number 55, is taken from fuse 32 of the original fuse box. The PCM is also
supplied through the PCM module relay and fuse 42 of the original fuse box, pin numbers 71 and 97.
The grounds are all taken back through to ground point G106 which has been bolted to the chassis.
The actual PCM pin out chart can be provided along with connector C12 and C14 if they are of assistance. There are still two sensors which I have not
yet obtained and fitted, ambient air temperature and clutch pedal position, but I do not think they would be the cause of the PATS 2.2 fault.
Thanks for you interest
Robbie
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big_wasa
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| posted on 30/9/11 at 06:37 PM |
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Hi, yes please I would be interested in any pin out data you have thanks.
The wiring for the transceiver I have is the same. On latter mk2's the plug is all black wires are yours ? giving the posability of being back
to front ?
The transceiver itself, is it from the same car as the ecu ? The mk2 is differant to the mk1 even though they look the same ?
Is the mk3 ecu eec-v or black oak ? is it canbus.
Any links or info you have would be great.
cheers
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Robbie 2B
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 02:33 PM |
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Pete
No luck!!!
Exchanged the PCM for yours, strapped your key to your transceiver and pluged it all in. Connected the battery and still the 2.2 fault code is being
displayed.
If it is not the PCM then as is must be a supply, ground or signal fault. The supplies and grounds have all been checked and double checked so signal
is next. I have ordered a ELM 327 diagnostic cable and will cobble together the feeds to the ISO 16 pin plug. Any assistance gratefully received
Your request for pinout info is noted, how do I attach an Excel spreadsheet giving the pin-out details?
I have read a post that you also need to have the instrument cluster installed. Can anyone shed light on this statement?
Robbie
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big_wasa
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 03:32 PM |
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I will u2u my email for the pin outs.
There may well be added security with the dash.
There are very few people to try and use a eec-iv~v upto the end of the black top (2000~2001) and ive never come across some one using a black oak
ecu.
How have you got the pin out data ?
Is it worked out from the loom or somthing like Autodata or Ford Tis ?
cheers
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Robbie 2B
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 04:54 PM |
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U2U received - Excel spreadsheet sent.
The info is from the Ford TIS DVD with the wiring checked back through to the PCM connector (C100) when ever possible.
Robbie
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pjay
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| posted on 2/10/11 at 06:31 PM |
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Robbie - really sorry to hear that at least it gives a second test. Hope the diagnostics help.
Nice to meet you today.
Cheers
Pete
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Robbie 2B
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| posted on 20/11/11 at 05:11 PM |
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Well it been a few weeks since the last post but - its finally runs!!!
After connecting up the PCM (ECU), instrument cluster (IC) and generic control module (GCM) the PATS lights light finally went out and it started
first time!
Next job is to weed out all the unrequired interconnects to see what is actually needed and what can be cropped.
There are a few items which now need to be dealt with such as the door ajar light showing on the IC, where to locate the drivers door lock and do I
actualkly need the controls for the sunroof.
So it is possible to take a Duratec straight out of a Mondeo and get it to work in a kit car using just the original Ford parts. I used the original
PCM, key and transceiver so Pete once the car is fettled, taxed and tested I will return yours.
Dead chuffed
Robbie
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steve m
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| posted on 20/11/11 at 05:35 PM |
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Well done for perciveering with it, i would of chucked the lot months ago!!
But i do like the KISS principle
Steve
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big_wasa
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| posted on 20/11/11 at 05:48 PM |
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Very well done. 
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pjay
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| posted on 20/11/11 at 09:10 PM |
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Result! Really pleased for you.
No need to return the ECU/transponder etc. see if someone else can make use of them in a similar set up to yours (or keep as spares).
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Superleggo
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| posted on 20/1/12 at 10:15 PM |
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star man
congratulations on getting a pats system to run on its own ecu. I am trying to do the same on a 1999 black top engine ( engine code NGD.)
I have just unpicked the wiring loom and identified all the wires with the help of autodata.
I am interested in some of your comments.
I have got the keys, transponder ring , and EEC-V ecu. I think it has the code ICAM but not sure which label means what!
I think I am missing a few things. One of which is the plug that fits into the transponder. So I will have to get one off another car but suspect that
I will not find one with the correct colour wires as Ford seem to change them from on model to another.
If you look at the transponder with the pins faceing you and the ring bit pointing downwards I can see 4 pins.On the left pair of pins there is a pair
of groovers above. On the right pins there is a single groove above. so which way round are they wired?
Power - RX - TX - Earth or
Earth - TX - RX - Power
How do I tell the difference between the RX and TX wires as Auto data lists both as PATS?
Also in one of the posts you say you need to wire in the Instrument cluster and the Genenic Control Module.
What is a GCM?
Will any model Mondeo cluster provide the correct feed or is it just the light that is required?
Any help more than welcome as I am trying to get a Zetec to run on the original ECU in a VW camper.
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