Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 10/8/12 at 07:59 PM |
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Alternator Issues?
After thinking that my starting from hot issues were down to ignition, (see previous thread), I am starting to think that it may be a charging issue
after all. I went out for a run again today, and guess what? Car would not restart after it was hot 
I have tried adjusting the timing several times both ways, and still no joy. If I jump start the car it does start although it can be reluctant.
I have cleaned the earths and checked that they are tight as well as the battery/starter connections and all seem fine. I did notice that when I was
out on the run, the voltmeter was showing low for a bit, then after about 5 mins it was back up around 13+V, but I think that is too low anyhow. I
have a simple tester which shows an 'OK' charge when the engine is running but when revved it flickers on 'Strong charge'. I
am wondering if the alternator could give a voltage as OK but not give enough current?
Does anyone know the what sort of current the alternator should give?
This is starting to hack me off now, it's taken forever to get the car on the road, and now it is, I daren't take it anywhere because it
will probably not start when I want to come back 
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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gremlin1234
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| posted on 10/8/12 at 08:42 PM |
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a lot of alternators use the voltage drop across the warning light as a control, thus they are very fussy about the bulb fittedm and working.
for instance an led warning light will make the alternator do strange things
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daviep
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| posted on 10/8/12 at 09:11 PM |
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I would 99% confident that your alternator is charging correctly. You need to do a bit of proper diagnosis work in a methodical manner to get to the
bottom of the problem. Do you have a multimeter and do you know how to use it?
If so first thing I would check would be checking battery voltage both hot and cold, 2nd check voltage at the starter (check the solenoid terminal
which is connected to the starter not the one connected to battery) when cranking and compare to voltage at the battery when cranking they should be
within 0.5v. If you find any discrepancies here then you are dealing with a bad connection such as battery terminal or starter solenoid. Also have a
touch at all the heavy cables and earths, a bad connection or cable which is too small will get hot.
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 10/8/12 at 09:38 PM |
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Davie,
In answer to your questions, yes and yes
I have put the battery on charge to make sure it is at a good voltage before I do any checks on charging as apparently this can give funny readings on
a lowish battery.
I have checked the connections as best I can, but was not aware of the voltage check at the solenoid connection. So tommorrow I will take a look at
that.
Is it possible to service the starter motor or is it just a case of get a replacement if it is suspect?
One thing I did notice is that the starter was pretty hot, but I am guessing that is just transferred heat from the block?
I hate auto electrics
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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britishtrident
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| posted on 10/8/12 at 10:00 PM |
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First thing to do is slow charge the battery at a low charge current for a few hours and allow it to rest for 20 minutes+ then do some tests.
In the current UK temperature a fully charged battery should show about 12.8v with the ignition off and no electrical load.
Next do a cranking voltage test use a DMM to measure the voltage between the battery positive and negative terminals while the engines is being
cranked.
If the voltage across the battery when cranking the the engine on the starter is less than about 10v it is not good, particularly a sudden drop to
less than 7v it can indicate a dead cell in the battery although it can also indicate a starter problem .
Next check the main earth straps by measure the voltage between the battery negative terminal and the cylinder block when the engine is being
cranked, I normally expect the result to be less than 0.2v
Check the charging voltage at 2000rpm with some load on the electrical system ie switch the head lights on 13.4 volts is the minimum voltage
that is acceptable, 13.8 to 14.4 volts is more normal. Above 14.9 volts is over charge.
Increase the RPM to 3500 rpm and switch the headlights off the voltage should remain fairly steady not shoot up above 14.8 volts.
Examine the main connections to the rear of the alternator as they are prone to arcing which can cause major problems.
The other test you can try is to check the leakage current through the alternator with the ignition off, the only difficulty doing this test is
most DMM's have a 10amp internal fuse which if it blows will result in the DMM reading zero when on the amp scale although it will function
normally on the voltage scales.
[Edited on 10/8/12 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 11/8/12 at 12:03 PM |
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Tried the voltage tests as suggested, and with ign. off and no load, reading was 13.38V. Cranking voltage after a couple of seconds went down to
around 9V. The battery is not even 6 months old so I am suspecting the starter.
I removed the starter and took out the solenoid, then tried to open it up to see if the contacts inside were shot and I managed to knack the solenoid
anyhow!
So at the very least I now need a new solenoid, but not sure if it might be better to just get anothe starter?
Trouble is they ain't cheap and I've just sold my limbs to get the damn car on the road! At the minute it's just a damn paperweight
Any ideas guys?
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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daviep
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| posted on 11/8/12 at 12:14 PM |
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Could also be a duff battery, is it sealed or is there cap(s) which can be removed to check electrolyte level? If so remove the caps and get somebody
to crank the engine over, you are looking for a cell which starts to bubble. If you see a cell bubbling or fizzing the battery is knackered.
What make is the battery and what size?
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 11/8/12 at 12:47 PM |
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The battery is a sealed type so cannot check that. It's an Exide EB501 - 50Ah with a 450A cranking amps value so should be more than man enough
I would have thought?
Just been looking round for starters but there are dozens of Ford Sierra/Cortina type ones so it's a bl**dy minefield!
The one I have fitted at the moment is marked as follows:
86BB-11000-NA, I can find that number online, but I know there are several motors that can be used on different engines. The Pinto I have is an early
one (1980) from a Cortina I think? The gearbox is a Sierra 5-speed Type 9.
So I am not sure what options I have regarding starters. The one I have at the moment is from the bay, I can't remeber what the spec was, but it
may be from a 1600. Not sure whether that would be the same as the 2.0 one or maybe not quite strong enough?
Really Pee'd off now as the weather is due to go cr*p from tommorrow onwards so there goes my driving
[Edited on 11/8/12 by Daddylonglegs]
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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britishtrident
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| posted on 11/8/12 at 01:30 PM |
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9 volts is a bit low for a cranking voltage test but too high for a dead cell.
With professional heavy duty Nolten Battery tester which puts a massive load of about 200amps on the battery a 9v is a good result, but using
the starter motor as the test load I would expect over 10 volts.
Normally a battery with a dead or gassing cell drops instantly to 6 volts under test and then may slowly rise to 8v or so.
It could be your battery is just worn out and lost much of its' charge capacity. Because they are not in constant use batteries in kit
cars tend to suffer premature failure.
Other possibilities include a short circuit inside the starter, worn crankshaft thrust bearings, however I would still suspect ignition
timing and recommend you check the distributor centrifugal advance is not sticking and then a proper check of the ignition timing with a. timing
light, set at 5 degrees BTDC at idle vacuum advance disconnected
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 16/8/12 at 05:13 PM |
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Finally replaced the starter motor for a recon unit. Car starts first time everytime and I just came back from a 30 mile blat and after a 5 minute
rest the car started up no problem. So I think the issue is resolved 
Thanks for the input guys 
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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