James
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 posted on 19/10/04 at 09:01 PM |
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Pinto Ignition- another question!
I'm afraid it's time for another dumb question.
I have the amplifier from a carb'd 1987 2.0 Sierra (The one with the stepper motor on the carb).
This is the one where the connector comes out the 'long' side of the oblong shaped amp.
With it I have a dizzy from what turns out to be a carb'd Transit. It has vacuum advance. It's the one with 2 wires out.
I've been trying to get them to run a bog standard '205' Pinto with bugger all success. There are no sparks at all.
Do I have any chance of getting these two to work together? Or do I need to find another amp or something?
Thanks in advance for any help!
Cheers,
James
P.S. If anyone can sell me the amp I need to go with this dizzy (or sell me a matching pair!)  I'd be most greatful.
James
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ady8077
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| posted on 19/10/04 at 09:29 PM |
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Hi James
How many wires does you amp have?
mines got 6 and was very easy to wire up
Adrian
PS you can still buy new amps
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nick205
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| posted on 19/10/04 at 09:34 PM |
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James,
Do you mean you have a Motorcraft electronic ignition amplifier. About the size of a fag packet, mounted on an aluminiium plate with 2 mounting holes
and with 7 connections?
This is the early ignition system and is used with a non-stepper motor carb and a 2 wire inductive discharge dizzy with vacuum advance.
Or do you have a Motorcraft ESC2 ECU box. This is an ally box about 15cm square and 3cm deep, witha large multiplug on one side and a vaccuum pipe
connection?
This is the later ignition system and is used with a stepper motor carb and a Hall effect 3 wire dizzy without vacuum advance.
The 1st option is by far the simplest as the 2nd needs lots mmore wires and various relays.
I ditched the later in favour of the early system to simplify the build and running of the engine.
HTH
By the way I still have the Weber stepper motr carb, ESC2 ECU box and accompanying dizzy. If you can make use of any of the bits let me know!
Nick
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bob
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| posted on 19/10/04 at 09:42 PM |
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I thought you had it running james,are you not using the 32/36 weber then ?
I have wiring diagrams for the motorcraft ign amp if you need them.
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James
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| posted on 19/10/04 at 10:20 PM |
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Wow! Didn't expect responses so quickly! 
Let's see if photos of what I have will help explain things:
Amps I have:
 
Both Amps I have
Dizzys I have:
 
Both Dizzys I have
Amps:
A) Is definately from Bob
B) Is from my 2.0EFI '205' Sierra
Dizzys:
A) Is from Transit (so I'm told ) and has vacuum advance and two wires out
B) Is definately from my 2.0EFI '205' Sierra
I was pretty sure that using Amp 'A' and Dizzy 'A' I would be onto a winner.
I've used the Heynes wiring diagram which is for the 1.6 and 2.0 OHC engines. It all seemed so promising...
Bob,
With Conrods help it was running (with the 32/36)- but that was with the EFI amp/dizzy stuff which meant no advance.
Thanks everyone,
James
Edited as I'm clearly losing my sanity!
[Edited on 20/10/04 by James]
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James
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| posted on 19/10/04 at 10:37 PM |
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Adrian,
both amps have 6 connectors. I thought it'd be easy too!  Comes from patching parts together.
Nick,
So I take it there are 3 different amps then? And I have versions 2 & 3?
'A' came from Bob!
"Motorcraft ESC2 ECU box" The only thing I have resembling this is the ECU from my 2.0i which I believe is the ESC4 or something!
Thanks,
James
Edited: as I'm clearly losing my sanity.
[Edited on 20/10/04 by James]
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Peteff
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| posted on 20/10/04 at 12:20 AM |
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The stepper motor carb has no vacuum advance from the dizzy James, it goes to a big aluminium box with loads of wires. Look in my archive at the
ignition module from a pre 85 2.0ltr. If you can get one it's the easy way to go. I think it's called the inductive discharge system.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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nick205
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| posted on 20/10/04 at 06:33 AM |
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James,
From your pics, module 'A' should work with dizzy 'A'. That should be the inductive discharge system with vacuum advance.
I've never seen module 'B' before so I'm not sure what that does!
Dizzy 'B' looks like the later Hall effect one where the vacuum advance is controlled via the ESC2 ECU unit.
Good luck!
Nick
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JoelP
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| posted on 20/10/04 at 07:36 AM |
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module A looks just like mine (from a non steppered 1.6). the carb stepper motor usually has 6 wires going to it, how was your module A wired up?
there doesnt appear to be space for 6 extra wires out of it...
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bob
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| posted on 20/10/04 at 08:04 AM |
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James
Just to confuse you even more i am possitive that amp (a) is the one i gave you
Anyway as the others have said Amp (a) and Dizzy (a) should work,i'll look for the wiring diagrams which i am sure are on this site somewhere or
if not try robin hood site as they are bound to be on there
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bob
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| posted on 20/10/04 at 08:49 AM |
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James
Does this helpImage deleted by owner
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James
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| posted on 20/10/04 at 08:52 AM |
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Not sure if it does mate- that's for the three wire dizzy not the two wire I have!
The output from the amp seem pretty different too.
Thanks anyway!
James
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bob
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| posted on 20/10/04 at 08:59 AM |
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No probs,you are welcome to try my other dizzy which is three wire BLACK/VIOLET/ORANGE
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James
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| posted on 20/10/04 at 09:04 AM |
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You busy this lunchtime?
James
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nick205
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| posted on 20/10/04 at 09:06 AM |
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Bob,
The dizzy you describe as 3 wire (black, orange & violet) does it have a vacuum advance?
If so I believe it's a 2 wire inductive discharge dizzy with the black wire fitted for earthing.
James,
Does this diagram make any more sense?
PS - this is for the 'A' type ignition module in your photo James. The dizzy wires may be different colours though.
HTH
Nick
[Edited on 20/10/04 by nick205]
 
Rescued attachment inductive ignition 2.0ohc sierra.jpg
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bob
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| posted on 20/10/04 at 09:13 AM |
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nick thats the pic i was looking for
I also found this
http://www.colinusher.info/Robin%20Hood/wireap8.html
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bob
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| posted on 20/10/04 at 09:59 AM |
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James
I think you need to cut down on the drugs son
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=10081
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James
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| posted on 20/10/04 at 10:10 AM |
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Bloody hell you're right mate!
Sorry 'bout that! How ungrateful of me!
Don't know about drugs but more sleep is definately called for! Was messing around with it till 3am this morning.
Suspect that a two hour lunchbreak will be called for today and it'll be spent in the car park asleep in my car!
All in all it seems I have all the right parts then. Guess it's time to start blaming my wiring.
Nick,
Thanks for posting that pic. Unfortunately I don't have the wiring diag I made to hand so will have to wait till this eve to compare the two.
Let's hope I havent fried the amp in the meantime!
James
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bob
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| posted on 20/10/04 at 10:18 AM |
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The youth of today
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James
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 12:38 AM |
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Balls!
Nah, still doesn't work!
Nick,
Did you (or anyone else for that matter! ) get it running with that wiring diagram that you posted?
 
Why both?
I also don't fully understand why there are two connections to the battery (the ones I've put in blue and red)?
The only wiring diagram I can find in Heynes that matches this is the 1.6 carb one. And on that the wire I've put in red goes to nothing except a
junction with nothing else connected!
Aaaagh!
I've tried it with combinations of both going to the battery and each one individually. Still no spark.
Any ideas other than ditching the amp coz it's fooked?
Thanks!
James
EDIT: Just re-reading this I've just realised it maybe sounds like I'm complaining at info I've been supplied- that was not my
intention! I'm grateful for *any* information supplied.
[Edited on 22/10/04 by James]
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Peteff
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 09:41 AM |
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The bk/y bk which runs to the coil is the live feed which is carried on to the amp and runs from the switched live (run position) on the ignition. The
bk/b bk/gn is a feed from the start position on the key to give a boost when cold starting and isn't always needed It's the thin wire that
fires the solenoid on your starter motor just carried on from there.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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nick205
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 10:09 PM |
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james,
I haven't had my engine running yet so I can't be sure it's right I'm afraid. I'm using a Vikki Green wiring loom and
wiring instructions and the diagram I posted is from (I think) Robin Hood or their owners club.
It's possible you've fried the module I guess!
Keep us posted on your progress
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James
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| posted on 25/10/04 at 01:55 PM |
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Hmmm, well Bob has given me another amp to try.
And also another wiring diagram..... aaaaagh!
Bob, did you use the diagram that you gave me?
Thanks,
James
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bob
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| posted on 25/10/04 at 06:26 PM |
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Get hold of conrod,he was the dizzy wire man that day.
I went to put the kettle on and when i came back he said give that a try,started straight away with the aid of a cup of petrol down its throat
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James
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| posted on 26/10/04 at 10:32 AM |
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Yippee! We have liftoff.
Well chuffed!
Wired it up again with Bob's new diagram (but with original amp- one I thought I might have fried) and Bingo!
Then spent a further ages wondering how the timing could be so out and why it kept back firing before re-arranging the HT leads and getting ignition!
Happy Day!
Thank you for the help everyone that's assisted. Seems the correct answer is just to use the correct wiring diagram!
I draw it up and post it here.
Cheers,
James
EDIT: Correcting my bad English!
[Edited on 26/10/04 by James]
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