britishtrident
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 08:17 PM |
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F1 Nadir
Stand up and be counted what do you think about F1
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JoelP
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 08:21 PM |
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i dont actually know whose fault todays debacle was, but i am sick of the FIA interfering! So i vote mosley to go...
we should never forget how much bernie has contributed to the sport in the past - it is largely his creation.
[Edited on 19/6/05 by JoelP]
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Triton
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 08:29 PM |
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CRAP
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 08:31 PM |
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i could.nt race at Brands today as the race was oversubsribed, ok i was'nt going too any way but there where 6 reserves on the entry list, thats
as many as started today, pants.....
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 09:01 PM |
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Todays Race was a joke and just goes to prove that as with many sports ( and i use the word lightly ) its all about winning and business and screw the
fans. I was surprised there wasn't a linching, and wondered if enough fans got together, and could afford it could they sue indianappolis bosses
to get a refund for everybody.
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scoobyis2cool
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 09:09 PM |
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It was Michelin's fault that the tyres weren't up to spec, but I think the solution proposed by the teams (add the chicane, race for the
fans but don't score points) was the best thing to do. The FIA themselves should have suggested this, not waited for the teams to come up with a
solution, by which time it was too late.
The FIA's job is to govern the sport, and this is exactly the kind of situation where they should take control and find a solution. They
completely failed to do this and I think it's their fault that the race was such a farce.
Pete
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care...
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 09:15 PM |
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I don't believe a word of it. Years ago, I was talking to a welding inspector who used to do all the weld Xrays. His favorite job was in july
when he was contracted by his firm to Xray tyres at Silverstone, he even got to see the race for free.
I suspect that Michelin is trying to get the F1 monopoly, and tried blackmailing Leslie Crowther and Peter Glaze - who didn't play ball, hence
the pullout.
Does it seem a bit contrived to anyone else, Michelin is too big a corporation to get caught out like that (Peugeot & Citroen and subsiduaries)
[Edited on 19/6/05 by Mark Allanson]
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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steve_gus
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 10:18 PM |
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i dont see the sense in that at all Mark.
Of the serious teams, only ferrari are running bridgestones. That left michelin in a pretty good position, winning all races so far this year. Nice
position for a one make tyre series.
Its highly likely that michelin will cop the cost of the whole farce, and will probably get charged with bringing F1 into disrepute with the FIA.
Thats hardly a plan is it?
Makes it incredibly unlikely they would get chosesn as a sole supplier.
There may not have been a construction fault in the tyres as such - it also sounds that they brought an inappropriate tyre for the level of stress in
the corners.
the good thing is that perhaps this will add to the plan for the breakaway series proposed in 2008 and ferrari can FCUK right off.
when IRL split half a dozen years ago from CART, I thought tony george of indy was nuts and a wrecker. Now, CART is just about shagged and IRL is the
leading series.
atb
steve
[Edited on 19/6/05 by steve_gus]
[Edited on 19/6/05 by steve_gus]
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 10:27 PM |
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I agree they have cocked up big time, but this is a company so big, that if they needed 1500 square tyres delivering at 15 mins notice, they could
have done it - the whole thing does not ring right to me
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Simon
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 10:27 PM |
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Bridgstone should have been told on Saturday to be prepared to fly in a load of spare tyres and the Michelin teams told to use them.
I think Michelin might want to give up selling tyres in the USA
ATB
Simon
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steve_gus
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 10:39 PM |
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it was stated on saturday that Michelin wanted to ship the same compound that had been used at the previous race. They were not allowed to as once
qualifying starts you cannot change.
It wasnt until the tyres crapped out in qulifying that they knew there was a problem.
Im sure michelin could have shipped truckloads out, but it was said on tv that there are FIVE seperate rules that stop them swapping tyre types after
practice begins.
atb
steve
[Edited on 19/6/05 by steve_gus]
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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DavidM
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 11:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
we should never forget how much bernie has contributed to the sport in the past - it is largely his creation.
[Edited on 19/6/05 by JoelP]
Bernie Ecclestone had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of Formula 1. He gained control of the sport through what some would say were a
series of questionable deals.
The man is a to**er who has ruined the sport for real fans. Anyone who can remember attending any Grand Prix during the 60's and 70's will
know what I mean.
David
Proportion is Everything
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Peteff
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 11:33 PM |
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He gained control of the sport through what some would say were a series of questionable deals.
Too true, he tried to do the same in the snooker circuit but was kept out. I hate to see everyone creeping round him when he deigns to appear on the
start grid. It was Grand Prix before he entered the field and had been running for many years.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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tks
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 11:34 PM |
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my thougts
i think there are 2 things that went wrong today...
and that's an easy one..
neither Ferrari , neither the FIA can see how important it is to race and build an good image for the spectators...
the FIA isnt the most powerfull and they don't act like the smart dad who tells you what to do and what not...
ferrari i never liked the brand, (search for the reason they didn't joined the first GP ever)
and from my point of vieuw today they hadn't an idea what it means..what was happening...
OK FIA = stupid we knew this...(they even cant make an car go slower in one year),(i would say switch to 5 gears but ok)
Ferrari shows againthat they don't have an sole..don't have an heart...
on the other hand,,,
all the michelin teams including jordan including minardi did good buisness reaching the agreement and chooseing for the sport..imagine the family
feeling when you all deside not to try it, not to go..
anyway they would give al the point to the bridgestones etc..
but they wanted to save what they could save...
if you ask me..what was happening was pure ferrari chit and crap.....
if they would shoose for their fans to give them what they pay for..and agree with the chicane..they would be an good team..one with an heart...and an
sport minded people...
but today they decided to go for they own succes what kind of feeling would it gave???for me its like fighting with a child
you knew you win? whats the sport?
if they would throw in the chicane at least they could race! and fight! and some one could call them sportive..
the FIA point is not loosing the boss..they don't want to be ok this time we agree
and then next time too etc..they are the boss..
but if ferrari agreeed..they would do it..and ferrari could made that way some friends...
sidethings??
wy ferrari didn't make statements? or talk in public???
i bet that if michelin has to make room for bridgestone
the teams will decide to rise another class..
leaving ferrari with their own crap..
i hate ferrari...and now one is gonna change my mind that they have passion...
passion for sickness passion for crap..
and the fxxk germa over there has found his good home to..look at his action on the pitlane exit...jaja its for lauging else he couldn't
win...
tks
[Edited on 19/6/05 by tks]
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turbo time
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 11:53 PM |
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The Chicane wasn't Ferraris' decision......I personally happen to agree with the FIA here, as sending 20 drivers out onto a circuit that
has just had a chicane hacked together 2 hours before a race, in the middle of a corner, IMO, would be as irresponsible as telling 14 drivers to head
out on potentially dangerous tires.
This is the copy/paste of the FIA's response on the matter:
The FIA said it understood that the French manufacturer had told teams the rear left was safe for a maximum of 10 laps at full speed.
It expressed surprise at the situation, given Michelin's years of experience at Indianapolis.
The final banked turn into the circuit's long pit straight puts huge pressure on the rear left tyres, with cars exiting at around 300 kph.
The FIA asked Michelin to advise teams of a safe speed for turn 13 and to make sure that other cars were not impeded.
It said another option would be for teams to change repeatedly the affected tire during the race.
"If the technical delegate and the stewards were satisfied that each change was made because the tire would otherwise fail (thus for genuine
safety reasons) and that the relevant team were not gaining an advantage, there would be no penalty," declared the FIA.
"If this meant using tyres additional to a teams' allocation, the stewards would consider all the circumstances in deciding what penalty,
if any, to apply."
The FIA dismissed as "out of the question" suggestions that a chicane should be laid out in Turn 13 for safety reasons.
"To change the course in order to help some of the teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the
race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tyres," it said.
I don't think it's fair to blame any team, the speedway, the FIA, or formula 1. The only party deserving of blame here is Michelin. I see
it as being that simple. It's easy to involve and blame all the other parties, but really, those 2 Toyotas don't blow their tires in
practice, and I'll bet the grand prix weekend goes off beautifully, and nobody is the wiser.
Michelin dropped the ball here, and has no excuse, that's all there is to it.
All I can say is that I'm glad I didn't end up making the drive to see the Grand Prix this year, or I'd probably be mad and sunburnt
about now.
Oh, and for anyone curious, fans in attendance could be getting refunds. This only because Tony George had a contract with F1 for this race, with one
of the terms requiring F1 to field a minimum number of cars (as I'm sure is standard in all these contracts between a series and a
circuit)....I'm sure that number was more than 6, so hopefully people get their money back. Too bad it doesn't cover their hotel stays,
time off, etc...
[Edited on 20/6/05 by turbo time]
The Projects: www.absurdcars.com
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DorsetStrider
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 11:54 PM |
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I don't know much about F1 as I've only been watching it since the start of my locost build..... But couldn't they have just used
bridgestone on all the cars? and maybe had a minutes penalty or something for those cars that would have otherwise been on michalin?
Who the f**K tightened this up!
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Noodle
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| posted on 20/6/05 at 06:53 AM |
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I don't know what all the fuss is about. It seems as though if life deviates from a standard pre-defined path, the TV people positively
fall-over themselves to decry what's going on.
If Alonso had won, he'd have got a mention this morning on the sports news on Radio 4. As it is, they'll be drowning in free publicity and
interest for the next race.
It's the money that's crying. James whatever-his-face-is on ITV is such a moaning self-rightous wuss. He should have enjoyed it for the
farce it was.
Political grandstanding rocks. As long as you can see it for the ephemeral babble it is, it's entertainment that lasts longer than one and a
half hours on a Sunday afternoon.
Cheers,
Neil.
Your sort make me sick
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JoelP
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| posted on 20/6/05 at 07:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DavidM
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
we should never forget how much bernie has contributed to the sport in the past - it is largely his creation.
[Edited on 19/6/05 by JoelP]
Bernie Ecclestone had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of Formula 1. He gained control of the sport through what some would say were a
series of questionable deals.
The man is a to**er who has ruined the sport for real fans. Anyone who can remember attending any Grand Prix during the 60's and 70's will
know what I mean.
David
really? as i understood it, before bernie the grand prixs werent guaranteed to happen at all. I thought that he had arranged a regular calender and
ensured that a regular race series occured. Maybe even sorted out the finances of it with the tv deals. Before my time, but thats how i saw it...
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James
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| posted on 20/6/05 at 11:33 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DorsetStrider
I don't know much about F1 as I've only been watching it since the start of my locost build..... But couldn't they have just used
bridgestone on all the cars? and maybe had a minutes penalty or something for those cars that would have otherwise been on michalin?
Even if it was allowed in the rules I don't think any team would be happy going out on untested tyres- they are so different that the setup of
the car would have to be changed to compensate- and all done without testing.
Maybe could work with another days testing but I doubt it...
It's just another nail in the coffin for the idea of multiple tyre manufactures and hopefully will encourage the FIA to bring back tyre changing
but restricted to a single manufacturer.
James
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"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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britishtrident
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| posted on 20/6/05 at 02:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
really? as i understood it, before bernie the grand prixs werent guaranteed to happen at all. I thought that he had arranged a regular calender and
ensured that a regular race series occured. Maybe even sorted out the finances of it with the tv deals. Before my time, but thats how i saw it...
No before Bernie things ran just fine just it was less lavish, with some where between 7 and 10 races in a season.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 20/6/05 at 02:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
really? as i understood it, before bernie the grand prixs werent guaranteed to happen at all. I thought that he had arranged a regular calender and
ensured that a regular race series occured. Maybe even sorted out the finances of it with the tv deals. Before my time, but thats how i saw it...
No before Bernie things ran just fine just it was less lavish, with some where between 7 and 10 races in a season.
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tks
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| posted on 20/6/05 at 05:39 PM |
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turbo time
i totally disagree with you statement..
f1 pilots are high professionals..they really know that if there is an change they need to brake....
sow that dangerous is out of the question..
ferrarie is guilty to not accept the chicane solution... they said it wasn't their problem!! bloody bastards..
offcourse michelin is the wrong one on top of this all.. but ferrari just trows petrol on the fire by not accepting the chicane..
and the points where already given to the bridgeston teams..no doubt about that..they just wanted to race..for the fans who paid their money for
that...
and not to see an ferrari practice..
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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DavidM
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| posted on 20/6/05 at 10:01 PM |
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I don't se how any blame can be laid at the feet of Ferrari. They brought the right kit to the race, the others didn't.
I'd suggest that if it had been Ferrari with the tyre problem, the others wouldn't have agreed to a chicane.
In relation to Bernie Ecclestone the only difference he has made is the introduction of corporate hospitality, elevating ticket prices to ridiculous
levels, milking the TV rights, and taking Brands Hatch off of the Formula One calender.
Formula One has had a full calender since the 50's.
David
Proportion is Everything
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steve_gus
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| posted on 20/6/05 at 10:35 PM |
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bridgestone were supplying 3 teams - it would be a tall order to supply another seven! the point thats being missed is that michelin could supply good
tyres - but the rules would not let them swap tyres after the types had been declared on the friday.
Another angle - just imagine if they had raced, and changed the tyres every 10 laps. Its not an exact science - a tyre could blow on lap 9 and kill
one or more drivers. WTF is that about? all those safety changes, and they would willfully suggest running a tyre thats known to fail.
and if it did, the FIA would then initiate action against michelin for killing a driver.
the post about the politics making it interesting is bollocks. Its a friggin race we watch, not a load of political infighting crap!
Its on the bbc site that fia have summonsed the seven teams.
I can see the fia taking revenge on them. and wouldnt that just sex up the championship and hand it to ferrari.
im being sarchastic there btw
lets hope the current f1 arrangements fall apart and a better independent series takes it place. Its the teams that matter. not the term
'F1'.
atb
steve
[Edited on 20/6/05 by steve_gus]
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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Noodle
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| posted on 21/6/05 at 07:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve_gus
the post about the politics making it interesting is bollocks. Its a friggin race we watch, not a load of political infighting crap!
I wasn't aware that you speak for everybody Steve. As the commentators make great play about the politics within the teams and the FIA and it
fills many a page of the motoring magazines, I naively assumed that it was of interest to someone or some people, somewhere.
Clearly I now know different.
Neil.
Your sort make me sick
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