02GF74
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 posted on 15/11/07 at 03:33 PM |
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anyone know Ron's background
Ron Cahmpion, he who penned the book - does anyone know his background?
In particular, how is he qualified as regards to designing a car chassis?
Is he an enginer by training or picked up as he went along? As for the book chassis, how did he come up with the design?
I am guessing he just copied and modified something like caterham/lotus 7 and tagged bits on but then again maybe not.
(basically question is angling for how to reduce weight of the chassis without compromising stiffness - not that I am planning to do anything like
that just curious).
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donut
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 03:35 PM |
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Wasn't he a college tutor?
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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zilspeed
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 03:40 PM |
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A book chassis was errrr 'inspired' by a pre lit Westfield chassis.
[Edited on 15/11/07 by zilspeed]
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procomp
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 03:43 PM |
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Hi you wouldnt want to dig verry deep. You would be verry disapointed. Basicaly he could do the talking but not the walking.
Cheers Matt
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andrews_45
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 03:44 PM |
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...He was asked by a mate to keep an eye on his garage while he went away.
His mate had a westie in it and he spent the next few weeks copying the westfield and putting it to paper.... The rest is history.
Or so the legend says
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James
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 03:45 PM |
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eh? over 4000 posts and you've not heard of Cymtriks?
Just dig up his chassis analysis. Will tell you what to add to a book chassis and what to remove to make is twice as stiff and 10% (IIRC) lighter.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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D Beddows
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 04:19 PM |
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He wasn't much with the talking either from my encounters with him - it didn't seem to discourage a strange tribe of rather odd hangers on
following him round everywhere and hanging on his every word though.......all very odd 
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 04:25 PM |
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Even allowing for all that, if it wasn't for him writing 'The Book' how many of us still be having this much
fun/nightmares/bruises/cuts/exitment/cameraderie building their own car?
After getting over the initial realisation, of course, that; £250 wasn't going to do it! 
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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D Beddows
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 04:36 PM |
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Indeed, but the thing I really can't forgive him for is coming up with the name 'Locost' - was that really the best he could do!? -
it's as bad as calling your boy Sue 
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 04:37 PM |
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I know there are a lot of Ron knockers out there and perhaps with some justification. However what we should not forget, is that his book has inspired
many to build their very own car from scratch and without it we would have been the poorer for it.
I was very lucky to meet Ron when he was a teacher at Oundle School and he gave me his background then. He started off in Motor Engineering and was
before the teaching post, a project engineer with Land Rover specialised vehicles. He did and does know what he's talking about when it comes to
car design.
His Department at the school rented a small industrial unit and at the time of my visit, there were at least 6 Locosts in various stages of completion
by sixth formers. Oundle School is engineering based so what an incredible start for the boys.
Ron may have had his shortcomings and how many of us don't but in my opinion he has done a fantastic job in motivating a lot of people to get
building.
John
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iank
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 04:37 PM |
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Sure I've read somewhere the cheapest car so far was £30 Though that was a scrapyard owner so might be considered cheating
I agree that if he hadn't written the book the kit business would look very different, and probably poorer for it.
Didn't someone allege he did a runner to Spain when his locost business went tango uniform?
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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t.j.
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 05:20 PM |
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He inspired me, also did Jim Dudley.
But maybe the lack off money and the will to get a decent seven inspired me more
Please feel free to correct my bad English, i'm still learning. Your Dutch is awfull! :-)
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02GF74
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 06:03 PM |
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wasn't meant to be a post about knocking ron, mere idle curiousity 
a bit of wikipedia:
]quote]Both Colin Chapman and Ron Champion have a background in the 750 Motor Club and the design of the Locost is based on a Clubman's Race
Car designed and built by Ron Champion in 1963. The rear is of course "inspired by" Lotus 7.
so I guess the question should be further refined to where he got the idea/design for his race car?
any links/info about this car?
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Macbeast
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 06:31 PM |
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" Didn't someone allege he did a runner to Spain when his locost business went tango uniform? "
No I think that was a manuafacturer who at Detling a couple of years ago, was offering free bodywork with their kit to anyone who paid a £500 deposit
on the spot and then went out of business a couple of weeks later. Not that that could have been forseen of course.
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DEAN C.
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 07:11 PM |
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Yes Ron did go to Spain and set up a business over there with Locosts I believe.
Strangely it was alleged that he had a few invoices to come back to over here.
Does it really matter how much of the Locost was his design.
a lot of other people furthered the original design to a much better car,but thats a natural line of design progression......
I would say that Colin Chapman started the base design which was followed up by dozens of builders and commercially by Caterham and then westfield.
Ron Champion obviously created his own basic version from these designs which would be easily built by one off builders with little gear or
knowledge,rather than Race teams looking for the perfectly designed car.
Ron obviously made himself a pension plan by making Joe Bloggs in the street build his dream from cheap bits easily available on a budget.
The Idea was good but perhaps his business skills didnt match his ability to inspire.Most basic designs are doomed in business,as they will quickly be
bettered and redesigned by others with in more experianced design/fabrication knowledge. and often an existing sound business with money to back
their ventures like this.
Just my take on some of the story,I never met Ron but I have a couple of friends who did,one in particular who built some of his original
chassis'.
Once I've finished a project why do I start another?
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 07:12 PM |
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Westfield did try to sue him - but he said that he could supply a car to the same design that pre-dated the early Westfield, so they dropped the case.
Allegedly.
He openly admitted that 'everyone copied Colin anyway' - Chapman, that is.
He, and many others including the Westfield founders and Colin Chapman, built and raced clubman cars in the 50's. Everyone copied each
other.
As for the name - with a name like 'Champion', why the *&^% did he call it Locost!
David
[Edited on 15/11/07 by David Jenkins]
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t.j.
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| posted on 15/11/07 at 08:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
Indeed, but the thing I really can't forgive him for is coming up with the name 'Locost' - was that really the best he could do!? -
it's as bad as calling your boy Sue
a boy could Sue
Please feel free to correct my bad English, i'm still learning. Your Dutch is awfull! :-)
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RK
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 12:22 AM |
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He would have been a great shop teacher at school. Lucky kids. In the old days, I suppose you could do it for 250, but now you spend that much on
booze trying to forget how much it really costs.
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John Bonnett
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 08:33 AM |
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quote He would have been a great shop teacher at school. Lucky kids. In the old days, I suppose you could do it for 250, but now you spend that
much on booze trying to forget how much it really costs.
I think Ron was an excellent teacher of motor engineering and the boys I spoke to thought very highly of him.
Many of the parents either owned or were high up in Engineering businesses and donated "Scrap" metal and Ford Escorts that Auntie Flo had
owned from new. In Ron's eyes, it was perfectly possible to build the car for £250 because most of the stuff was available for nothing.
John
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procomp
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 03:06 PM |
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Hi i dont think the parents thought much of him after he had left and they realised he had done them out of an awful lot of money. Wich is the one
claim to fame he has whereever he goes there is people left out of pocket .
And he didnt exactly do much of the teaching at oundel either as that was done by the ex RAF guy that did all the work. Infact when the race
championship started people soon realised he was a bit incompetent at anything to do with the cars.
Cheers Matt
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kb58
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 04:21 PM |
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Is all this true, or is it just our jealously coming through? I mean it as a real question, not as a jab at anyone.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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procomp
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 04:31 PM |
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Hi like i said if you start digging youll be dissapointed.
Cheers Matt
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 04:36 PM |
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In my early locost days I tried to call in at his place, (workshop) didn't get a very warm welcome and he was long gone, that's as much as
I know.
But, had it not been for the book I wouldn't be on this forum now and a lot of manufacturers wouldn't be knocking out 7 replicas either,
my 2p.
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TimC
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 04:45 PM |
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Bit off topic (but still Ron-related) this one but.. in my hand I have a September 2001 edition of Kit-Car (probably the most interesting one ever
for 7-fans with articles on Caterham, Locost, Westfield and the F27.) In the Locost News section there's a oicture of the 'Locost
Motorcycle Engines Race Car prototype' - it's got a full body. Anyone know the history?
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D Beddows
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 05:28 PM |
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It's not jealousy there just isn't realy that much substance to the man once you start scratching the surface - as Matt has said for
someone who was supposedly a special agent at Land Rover/raced against Colin Chapman/built a Westfield before Westfield did and whatever else you
hear, the 750MC Locosts he built were astonishingly rubbish, they looked half finished, bits would just fall off them at the slightest provocation -
not what you'd expect at all from a competent automotive engineer
Other people have obviously had different experiences but, having met him a few times , I personally thought he was/is a bit of a kn*b. Sorry if that
offends people but it's just my experience of the man........
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