The main probs are built up over long term use - bit like one cigarette won't kill you but several thousand there's a good chance they will !!!
Hi all
I just wanted to get your opinions on this:
Everybody shudders and gawps in horror if 2 PAK paint is mentioned, portents of doom and the end of the world are proclaimed, strong men pale and go
weak at the knees and the earth shakes.
So I thought I'd look into it and found the HSE COSHH sheet on the stuff, it just says contact should be minimal and that there is a low risk of
ashma.
SO what's the hype about?
we will find out after sat mat...
is ther not a differecne between two part and two pac.
One having issocyanates (sp) in it.
I think long term damage is the potential problem, I used to spray Gipfast and 2K paint about 20 years ago without proper gear. Yes I feel an idiot. I
curse my employer for allowing it but health and safety was not as strict then. I now have some breathing and chest probs. Is it linked? May be may be
not.
Dont do it.
Steve.
but you'll die as soon as you order it!
i know its really dangerous, contains cyanide type stuff, but if you're sensible, wear the correct mask, don't let it get on your skin etc,
i think you'll live.
the toxins can be absorbed through the skin and eyes though
i think myself its more a problem with prolonged contact with it, like you spray cars every day.
my godfather used to spray trucks. he's not dead. though he did tell me of a guy who used to spray trucks used the correct mask etc, BUT he
didn't wear one when mixing the paint, and thats what did his breathing in
i'm no painter though
I was quite highly allergic to it would get asthma type symptoms just walking thro' an area where it had been recently used, but I was able to
use it fine as long as I used an air fed mask.
The main probs are built up over long term use - bit like one cigarette won't kill you but several thousand there's a good chance they will
!!!
Personally I would say don`t use it.
It is bad for you,plus your neighbours, pets etc.
You are turning the said chemicals into a very fine mist.
With a brush itis not so bad but I still won`t touch it.
You can achieve good results using solvent based spray so I would use that.
Darren
It is really nasty stuff, the more exposed to it the more sensitive you become you feel fine until you reach the point where it can suddenly trigger
an sever asthma attack or even a heart attack, sensitivity varies greatly between individuals.
Add to this the fact the over spray is so adherent and so fine it will travel through any filter mask to the deepest reaches of your lungs where
it stays.
quote:
Originally posted by turbodisplay
Personally I would say don`t use it.
It is bad for you,plus your neighbours, pets etc.
You are turning the said chemicals into a very fine mist.
With a brush itis not so bad but I still won`t touch it.
You can achieve good results using solvent based spray so I would use that.
Darren
This is the document that sparked my interest:
http://www.images.spiderwebdesign.co.uk/2kpaintCOSHH.pdf
Barry - I'll be safely outside the garage :p
quote:
Personal protective equipment (PPE)
Respiratory protective equipment (RPE) should not be needed if the
ventilation is working properly.
That's a generic COSHH guidance sheet. You need to get hold of the specific manufacturer's COSHH sheets for anything you are considering using. Unfortuantely, COSHH only applies in the workplace and you don't always get the requisite information if the seller knows you'll only be using it at home.
Am i the only one aware of the Environment Agency then?
There is specific legislation regarding the use of spray equipment and the material used. Not least should you have a filtration system in the
ventilation system, you should also have fume scrubbing plants to make sure your not extracting flammable fumes into the atmosphere.
It escapes me presently, what the regs are, but i do know that the environment agency are involved.
As with all industrial / commercial processes, you should wear the correct PPE (personal Protective Equipment), and install the correct safety
precautions / "control measures". Anyone injured or damage could be at your liability.
I also just noticed that the sheet was for "mixing" 2k paint, I found this more appropriate one:
http://www.healthandsafetyworksni.gov.uk/safe_
working_with_2-pack_isocyanate_paints_indg_388-2.pdf
[Edited on 11/3/10 by Airhead]
I used 2k when respraying the golf, gave a good finish but definitely gave me headaches after about half an hour of spraying. I found that even a few hours after spraying, when I came back to the garage the air was still heavy with it. ALWAYS use a mask and get correct venting! PPE may be expensive but its cheaper than a funeral!
i've just read the gov. cossh pdf. I'm going to ask fozzie to sticky this thread. This question has come up a lot lately with lots of
"i've been fine" advice.
I think the pdf sums up the position quite well - you may be fine once, you may not. Its a seriously harmful product, don't risk it.
just how bad does this stuff smell in comparison with cellulose ?
quote:
Originally posted by boggle
solvent based is just as bad.....thats why its becoming phased out with waterbase replacing it.....remember that lacquer is 2k unless you use acrylic which is no where near as good......
quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
industrial / commercial processes
why would you weld a diff????
and i use 1k lacquer acrylic on wheels.....
i didnt realise 2k lacquer was acrylic....
From http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=82762
quote:
Mark Allanson
I can paint with 2K paint no problem, I have access to £280,000 of booth, rotary compressor and a dozen pro guns to choose from. I have a spray suit and an air fed mask, gloves and special boots.
But I cannot paint with 2K as it is now considered too dangerous, and damaging to the environment, despite the equipment. I now use water bourne paint with a reduced cyanate clearcoat.
Don't use 2K even if you can get hold of it, your supplier will be breaching regulations selling it. Use polyester bases with a 1K clear, almost as good, and dead easy to use, and you will live to tell your grand kids that you built your own car.
Every christmas I visit the children of a dead paint sprayer who was a friend and collegue, they are of an age now to be embittered that we knew no different about the dangers of 2K although they were infants when he died at the age of 32, a sad situation.
quote:
Later in the same thread
You must wear an air fed mask running off a screw compresser not a piston one as these produce oil droplets which also stops your lungs working. You can absorb iso through your skin so a spray suit and gloves are necessary. The dried paint residue (overspray dust) is also lethal so that brings up another problem.
When I used to work as a Mech in Toyota the bodyshop was through a 10 foot corridor and 2 doors, accross the other side of the workshop from my ramp
and largely cars were sprayed in the booth, sometimes odds and sods out though, but staying at my ramp, all day and not going in there, I could tell
you what colour car he was painting by picking my nose and looking at lovely metallic, sometimes pearlescent, snobs.
Prob going to get ill later in life, hey ho, damage done now 
ive worked in a few body shops and as a mobile alloy wheel and smart repairer...
my first boss never wore a mask for baseing up and only for clear coating...he is still going strong....he is also a well known rally cross
driver....
we painted lorrys in the shop that would stick out the oven, and we would often do all our priming(which is 2k) in the shop at the end of the day
using just twin canister masks.....
i think a lot of it is over speculated, mixing and rubbing filler and fiberglass is just as bad...how many of us do that without masks????
if your unsure then leave it to a paint shop...i on the other hand will continue doing my own paintwork.....
I made my own oil free air supply for my air fed mask, no need to spend £3k on a screw compressor. I bought a brand new £15 vacuum cleaner from argos,
removed the motor/fan and built it into box made from MDF and fitted a car pollen filter to the inlet, helps with my hayfever when spraying in the
summer. Its quite noisy but i just wear ear plugs.
My airfed mask is a sandblasting hood with an air flow indicator and a collar that tucks into my overalls blowing in fresh air.
For my "mixing room" i use a corner of my shed and a bathroom air extracter.
Paul
[Edited on 11/3/10 by Cousin Cleotis]
ot has any one used the aldi water based paints
quote:
Originally posted by Cousin Cleotis
I made my own oil free air supply for my air fed mask, no need to spend £3k on a screw compressor. I bought a brand new £15 vacuum cleaner from argos, removed the motor/fan and built it into box made from MDF and fitted a car pollen filter to the inlet, helps with my hayfever when spraying in the summer. Its quite noisy but i just wear ear plugs.
My airfed mask is a sandblasting hood with an air flow indicator and a collar that tucks into my overalls blowing in fresh air.
For my "mixing room" i use a corner of my shed and a bathroom air extracter.
Paul
[Edited on 11/3/10 by Cousin Cleotis]
no simple answer on this
its definitely NOT a case of instant death with 2k, but equally you really don't want to breathe it in!!
we use a lot of 2k
its a pain in the ass. Airfed masks are not great fun to wear, the fumes during cure are MUCH more harmful than what comes off during spraying, and if
you run the extraction during cure then you just up the risk of dust (bearing in mind we don't have a megabucks booth.
Painting celly in the old days was much easier!
have to learn it all again in waterbased next!!
One for Mark Allanson, what blowers are there that don't consume stupid amounts of expensive compressed air, but don't throw dust up???
Must be something surely other than the compressed air vortex blowers........
[Edited on 17/5/10 by NS Dev]
2k might be bad for you but its the only paint your going to get a nice finish the diy way as ive found out, all you need is a good mask thats speced
to what your sparying you dont need an air feed mask DO NOT USE a cheap dust mask. cellulose is ok but a pain in the ass to get right and 90% of the
time looks shit.
heres a car ive just sprayed with 2k in a garage with a proper mask for the job.
adam
Its a sad fact when your young and a bit daft you take risks and do things that when your an old buzzard you will surely come to regret as they will
come back to haunt you big style.
Smoking, working with asbestos, in my case using freon gas like compressed air ( 4 of my old work mates dead of the big c before their time) were all
at one time pronounced harmless. However 2 pack has always come with a warning, to be aware of the dangers at least puts the onus on you and your
common sense.
Cheers,
Bob
I am going to be spraying a lot of 2k soon when I do the body on my Camaro... 1k clear is crap by all accounts, as is 1k hi-build.
There are some non-iso 2k paints available but they are massively expensive. House of Kolor are the main people. This is the stuff you see them
spraying on American Hotrod just wearing normal masks. But the prices are enough to put you off...
However I have looked into the equipment needed and an air fed mask and 3 stage filter system (with Coalescing filter) can be run off a piston type
compressor. Will need it's own 3hp compressor just for the mask though. Total cost is around £500 by the time you have a S/H compressor too. I
have all the other gear anyway.
I am currently working with a non-iso epoxy primer/sealer by a company called Jotun. Still wearing a proper 3M mask to spray it though as its bloody
potent stuff. However it sets hard as nails and its much better than anything 1k that I have ever used.
I've had no end of trouble with water based paints - finish is fine and colour match was OK but it didn't last 12 months and became porous fairly quickly. I sprayed 2K on the wings (paint supplier was very cagey about supplying it to me and pointed out that there's legislation about how and where it can be sprayed and that they'd be in trouble if they were found out - they would only supply it if I promised I had an air-fed mask). Problem is I only have a driveway in which to spray, so I stopped using it and gave up and went back to water based but still need a lacquer which defeats the purpose. The finish with 2K is so much easier to achieve. I've reached the point now where I'm tempted to just hand it over to a proper body shop and save myself the hassle.
don't worry about 2Pak its good stuff
Painted my E46 M3 white using it.
Used a crap mask as I was too lazy to go and get a decent one, after laying the first coat on head was thumping and had a sore chest.
Decided it was best to get a good mask haha.
On this subject safety is paramount, why risk it? I have been in and around heavy engineering for 50 years. Welding and fabricating Ships, Nuclear subs and power stations, associated machinery right through to kit car chassis etc. paying the price now, air fed mask 15 years back was about 20 years to late. As an old dog speaking, please take care of your health.
quote:
Originally posted by Airhead
Hi all
I just wanted to get your opinions on this:
Everybody shudders and gawps in horror if 2 PAK paint is mentioned, portents of doom and the end of the world are proclaimed, strong men pale and go weak at the knees and the earth shakes.
So I thought I'd look into it and found the HSE COSHH sheet on the stuff, it just says contact should be minimal and that there is a low risk of ashma.
SO what's the hype about?
quote:
Originally posted by axle
quote:
Originally posted by Airhead
Hi all
I just wanted to get your opinions on this:
Everybody shudders and gawps in horror if 2 PAK paint is mentioned, portents of doom and the end of the world are proclaimed, strong men pale and go weak at the knees and the earth shakes.
So I thought I'd look into it and found the HSE COSHH sheet on the stuff, it just says contact should be minimal and that there is a low risk of ashma.
SO what's the hype about?
Stay away from it I had a very bad experience, had me and on the family edge when I had to be admitted to hospital . I shall not go into details ,Please do not go near it without proper equipment
Worth noting that the HSE pages on it point out that water based paints can be cyanate containing too...
https://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/bodyshop/isocyanates.htm
[Edited on 28/9/22 by coyoteboy]