Just joined the site and felt that this place is a great resource for these projects.

I have some decent experence in fabrication work and have mainly built four wheel drive truck suspensions to use to explore the desert here in Arizona. After looking into these little cars, I felt that a locost would be a great way to learn a little more and do some experimenting with street suspensions.

So, this last weekend, I started building my own locost using the McSorley 442 plans... (I dont even own any locost books yet...) I've also decided to go the route of IRS, since smaller live rear axles are getting harder to find here. (everything is front wheel drive these days!!)

Here is where I'm at on the chassis after running out of steel & about 2 hours of cutting & 3 hours of tack welding the pieces together:




With its new wheels, which were donated to the locost cause by my brother:


I am planning on using a Nissan 240sx as my donor car, which will give me large front and rear disc brakes, a KA24 4 cyl and 5 speed, as well as most of the parts I need to build a decent IRS setup in the rear of my locost.

Went and picked up another 80 feet of 1x1 and 20 feet of 1"x13 gauge tube for the wishbones..

My first question for you folks, will 13 gauge tubing be adequate for the wishbones, or should I go with something heavier? 1"x13 gauge is approx 25mm diameter x 2.23mm wall thickness. I dont have the book yet, so have no guidance on this aspect other than the photos I've seen on here.

BTW, The yellow car in the background is my resto-modified 3 liter V6 powered '72 Datsun 510 (1600 overseas). It is a lot of fun to drive. I have some pics of it too if anyone wants to see.

[Edited on 25/1/06 by datz510]

quote:

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Originally posted by datz510

BTW, The yellow car in the background is my resto-modified 3 liter V6 powered '72 Datsun 510 (1600 overseas). It is a lot of fun to drive. I have some pics of it too if anyone wants to see.

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Here are a few pics I have online..

http://members.cox.net/datz510/my510.jpg
http://members.cox.net/datz510/my510-2.jpg

And a few of the engine bay.. the V6 engine fits.. just barely.. did all the fabrication work myself to shoehorn it in. It looks almost factory.
http://members.cox.net/datz510/manifold11.JPG
http://members.cox.net/datz510/manifold13.JPG
http://members.cox.net/datz510/manifold10.JPG

Its a real hoot to drive.. The first couple gears are prone to leave a lot of rubber on the ground! The torque curve of the V6 is almost flat from 2000rpm up to 6000rpm, so it pulls like a freight train in any gear at almost any rev..

interesting engine... do you have the weight of the vg30 engine with the gear box?

The VG30 V6 weighs ~357lb by itself. They are a cast iron block w/ aluminum heads. Add about another 90lb for the tranny. I am running a Borg Warner T5 transmission with the VG30.. The T5 was a factory tranny in the 1989 Nissan 300zx turbo sports cars here in the US.

The engine can be sourced over there in Europe out of the Nissan Terrano or Terrano II or stateside out of the older 300zx, Maxima, Pathfinder, and a number of other vehicles (even Ford Windstars and Mercury Villagers had them). They are pretty much indestructable engines and will take a lot of abuse and still run like a sewing machine.


[Edited on 25/1/06 by datz510]

thanks for the info! nice 510 and good luck and perseverance with the locost

Welcome to the madhouse Datz

Ahoy there shipmate ! welcome aboard !

I trust that you won't be fitting any weather gear on your car !:

Welcome to the madhouse too!

I'd up the wishbone thickness to around 3mm (11 SWG) if possible - you can't go wrong then.

Good luck and you have found the best place for advice and help.

Pat...

Also, get the egine and gearbox roughly in place next before welding any of the transmisson tunnel bars or the two that are loose on the board as these may need moving to suit the gearbox - you don't have to stick with book dimensions for these.

Pat...

Welcome, and good to see someone else about to encounter, (help us solve), the problems of the 442. Check out my archive for suspension mounting problems if you decide to go with the book sizes. There are a few folk on here building 442's at the moment welcome to the club.
Good luck.

Wow! Thanks for the warm welcome!

Last night, I was able to cut and get the rest of the frontend members tacked in place (except for the trans tunnel uprights.

Nope, no weather gear will be added, except for a cap to keep the sun off my noggin. 350+ days a year of blue sky and sunshine...

Avoneer, thanks for the info on the bones.. I'll pick up another stick of 11 gauge before I start them.

Once I get ahold of the book, I'll study the dimensions for the front bones and see what will need to be done. From what I've read, I know the upper and lower 442 chassis dimensions have caused a lot of grief in that department.

Do most builders go with longer lower arms or build out the lower part of the chassis to allow the book arms to be used?

Again, thanks for the warm welcome! I'm sure you guys will be seeing a lot of me over the course of my build.

I'd measure the track width for the back of the car and make your bones to fit the normal chassis dimensions, but with the same track as your rear axle.

Best is to do a scetch or tacked up effort and ask us all what we think when you get to that stage.

Pat...

quote:

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Originally posted by Avoneer
I'd measure the track width for the back of the car and make your bones to fit the normal chassis dimensions, but with the same track as your rear axle.

Best is to do a scetch or tacked up effort and ask us all what we think when you get to that stage.

Pat...

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Nice work

You wont believe the things you will chop and change along the way so dont weld solid untill your sure...

Hi Datz
Thats a nice 1600, just wondering if you retained the standard rear axle or upgraded to something stronger. The Locost is looking good as well.

Wimmera

very nice 510, i was going to build up a dime with a twin turbo chevy v6 but i started the project im on right now instead. im still in love with the 510s though, ill have one some day . nice work on the 442 also, good luck

quote:

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Originally posted by WIMMERA
Hi Datz
Thats a nice 1600, just wondering if you retained the standard rear axle or upgraded to something stronger. The Locost is looking good as well.

Wimmera

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quote:

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Originally posted by big_wasa
Nice work

You wont believe the things you will chop and change along the way so dont weld solid untill your sure...

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Just some update photos of my project 442...

I picked up most of a donor car last weekend. I am using a 1989 Nissan 240sx, which has a KA24DE 2.4L 4 cylinder engine producing approximately 140hp (104kW). I will also be looking into a turbo setup once the car is completed to further improve performance. It is not uncommon to see 280-300hp (208-223kW) from these engines when built.

The 240sx also uses a nice IRS setup with I believe an aluminum differential and has flanged rear unit bearing hubs, which will allow me to build my own uprights.

Here is the IRS subframe with halfshafts tossed in to show approximately where they will go. Still needs some triangulation and need to make the differential mounts, but its showing progress.. you can also see the flanged unit bearing hubs in this photo:

(You can also see my new Milwaukee chop saw... new projects are always a good excuse for new tools, as my father taught me)

Several views of the halfway triangulated chassis:




Last night, I started tacking in the trans tunnel lowers and so should have half of the tunnel done soon. Once I get the engine and tranny into place, I can finish it.

A coworker will be donating a pair of Porsche 914 seats, which should fit nicely. I'll need to reupholster them, but I think they will work really well for this car and will look similar to the seats used in the caterhams and westys.


[Edited on 7/2/06 by datz510]

Just figured I'd post up some update photos..

Less than 3 months after I welded the first peices of the chassis together, here is how she sits as of last night. Still have a tremendous amount of work to do, but it seems a lot closer to sitting on its own now. Once the suspension is done, it'll be a real milestone for me. I'd like to have this thing driving by the 6 month mark!

Got one of the front A arms done last night:



Almost looks like a car in this pic:


The new front A arm.. needs some finishing still, but its about 90% done right now.


Got the lower mounts tack welded on:


Another view:


The view from the driver's seat:


The "official" build thread for my car is here:
http://nissan4wheelers.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/748603133/m/68510553031/p/1

Looking good that. Going along much quicker than mine is. Are you adding any extra triangulation to the chassis? Might be wise if you do end up with the blower fitted.

Yep, I will be adding a bit more triangulation to the chassis. Especially in the rear for the IRS. as all of that is currently not triangulated at all. Once I have an idea on where some of the components will be sitting, I can design the rest of the chassis triangulation around them.

What are those front uprights from?

They are from a 1989 Nissan 240sx.

I'm still not sure whether they will be acceptable. The pre-set ackerman angle isnt right for a front steer application. Trying to figure out if I can adjust ackerman angle via rack placement. If so, they might work ok. I can always cut and reweld the arms to correct the ackerman angle if required.

*edit*.. looking online I found that if i move the rack back, it will increase the ackerman angle, so, by placing the rod end above the stock arm, it'll set the stock arm to around zero ackerman, which I can then increase by moving the rack backwards.

[Edited on 19/4/06 by datz510]

Hi
Looks great. I am using similar components but have not made the rear uprights yet. It looks as though you have made some rear uprights? If so I would be very interested in seeing how you went about it.
I've used the Nissan uprights on the front but stuck with the original rack placement and dimensions of the bottom arm. I have more room in front of the SR20 to fit the rack, whereas you look limited.
Bruce

Fantastic progress, mine still not quite at that stage after *mumble* years....

I notice you have moved the cockpit side tubes so that they slope down, was that just to give extra elbow room?

I did that on mine too. Partly to give extra elbow room, and partly because it looked "better" that way.

I dropped the cockpit side tubes after I had the seat in place. I found that the side tube was in exactly the wrong location and my elbow hit it whiel turning the steering wheel. So, I dropped it.

Now that I've done it, I like the dropped look much better than the original straight sided design.

Looking good.
Roughly how many hours a week you spend on it? You are making the sort of time that I hope to be doing once I start building. I intend to have nearly all the parts and planning done before starting. Although my fabricating experience is not great, I am an auto mechanic so I should do OK. I dont have a shop right now so I will have to rent one. Renting where I am is STUPID expensive so I need to bang it off pretty quick .
Thanks for the input.

I've been spending on average about 3 full evenings during the week and most of one day on weekends. The rest of the time is demanded by my girlfriend.

Right now, I'm sitting at just over 2 months into the build from scratch and the chassis has 4 wheels and looks like a car. I'm very happy with the progress so far.

Yesterday, I ordered a full set of handmade aluminum fenders and a fiberglass Lotus Seven dimensioned reproduction nosecone from a company here in the states ( www.coveland7.com ). Total cost was around $700us shipped, which is about 350 pounds I'm guessing. Not bad for handmade aluminum fenders.

Also, here are a couple renderings of my suspension plans:

Front suspension:

Rear suspension:


The coilovers are motorcycle monoshocks from Kawasaki Ninja ZX7R and Yamaha R6 bikes. Got those off Ebay for between $10 and $20 each.

[Edited on 21/4/06 by datz510]

Cool, I have 3 days/week off so I *could* spend up to 30hrs a week if I was keen enough. I hope to make quick work of it once I get started. Also had an offer from a fabricator to weld the chassis once I have it all tacked. Will be nice to have TIG welds on there.

What program you modelling the suspension in? Im still haven't decided which one I like.
Cheers.

I used SusProg3D to model the suspension:

http://www.susprog.com/

There is a free demo version you can download, which is what I used. You cant change the parameters of the uprights, but everything else is adjustable.