Paul
[Edited on 7/7/07 by Paul (Notts)]
Hi guys,
I'm looking to get a Rover V8 to start my build and I'm wondering what to look out for when buying. There seem to be so many different
types! (Low comp, high comp, P6, long etc etc.....)
Whats best for a locost? Do I have to look out for anything such as engine numbers to prevent possible SVA problems?
Cheers,
Jon
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/rimmer/rover/v8engine/specs
Above link contains a table of engine numbers so you can check origin of engine.
I have a 3.5 from a range rover 1988 because I was offerd one cheep. ( It needed a full rebuild)
the main thing is the condition of the engine. It always helps to see it running.
It will be a tight fit in a locost......
Paul
Hi,
Best bet is an engine based on the SD1 3.5 Vitesse block from the mid 1980's. I think the engine number prefix is 30A if memory serves me
correctly. These have a 9.75:1 compression ratio and will run on 95RON unleaded fuel. You can ditch EFI in favour of a pair of SU's (watch bonnet
clearance) or ideally a downdraft carb such as the excellent Weber 500 or Holley 390. Or you can stick with the EFi if it is working okay.
Second choice (and perhaps easier to get hold of) is the non-Vitesse SD1 3.5 engine from around 1976 to 1982 (IIRC). This is what I have and it runs a
compression ratio of 9.35:1 which is also fine with 95RON unleaded. A very simple engine to work with - no EFi, simple ignition system, mechanical
dizzy etc. Very easy to work with IMHO.
For me the third choice would be a Range/Land Rover engine but these have a lower compression ratio and tend to be tuned for low down torque rather
than power which in my opinion is not so well suited to a lightweight car like the Locost. The later engine blocks are technically better but are much
more complex than the SD1 engines and have all sorts of ancillary attachments at the front of the engine. With the SD1 engine you just lose the power
steering pump, replace the crank pulley, alternator bracket and water pump with one from a P6B and you are sorted.
Last choice would be a P6B engine but these have a whole bunch of weaknesses compared to the SD1 and later engines including rope type oil seals, poor
oil pumps, poorer cylinder head gas flow etc. They also run 10.5:1 compression which is pushing it for 95RON petrol. I think I'm right in saying
that the valves are less suitable for unleaded fuel too. I can't see any reason to choose a P6B engine with plenty of SD1 engines around.
As said above, ideally hear the engine run and check that oil pressure is present. RV8's don't run much oil pressure but make sure there is
some! When cold at fast idle you might expect 15-20psi. More importantly is to check the engine isn't rattling and is running on 8 cylinders. A
compression check is worth doing if possible and even better, take a rocker cover off (pozi screwdriver) and look for black carbon sludge around the
rockers. There may be some deposits in the low parts of the casting but it should not be caked around the rockers. Ideally the casting will be a dark
golden brown colour and free of deposits.
Sorry to ramble on a bit - I hope this helps!
Cheers,
Craig.
wow thans guys - some good info there. Will be keeping an eye out for an SD1 engine then!
Thanks again,
Jon
dito the SD1 engine, high compression and the 11A engines have a date range of 78 to 80, Vitesse engine 82 - 87 so SVA is no probs.
Still wet myself over the sound
[Edited on 7/7/07 by darrens]
I wouldn't recommend a Land Rover engine in a light weight car like a locost. They're tuned for low down torque rather than power so it
would be wheel spin all the way. A revvier engine will put the power down better.
First choice for me would be a TVR rover V8 if you can find one. Rover wanted smooth power. TVR wanted more power. so do I.
And now I'll chip in with the opposite...
Most of the engines around these days are Range/Land Rover ones, as all the SD1s rotted away years ago. The camshafts are all f**ked now anyway (they
only las for about 60-70k before they wear to buggery and power begins to drop off), so bang in a 3.9 cam into your 3.5 for an approx 15bhp gain (you
will need to alter fueling to take advantage of this to its full extent).
Land Rover engines post '86 (with the advent of EFI) are all 9.35:1 (unless you buy a utility engine on carbs, in which case it will be 8.13:1)
and have the 'stiff' block pattern (look where the gearbox bolts up to the back of the block - they will have extra webs in here drastically
improving the bottom end block strength). Equally all heads from this age are of the 'Vitesse' type (i.e. waisted carbon break design).
Lastly, the front covers are interchangeable. The alternator mount will probably want swapping for a 1970-1986 carb Range Rover type which puts it
high up and on the offside. The 4x4 front cover is BIIIIIG and interferes with everything unless you have a larger than average engine bay. Saloon
front covers are now rare and expensive when not attached to an engine. The Saloon waterpump is also the shortest design, the 4x4 the longest but with
a slightly higher capacity. If you swap front covers or water pumps, make sure you try and get the matching pullies, as there are several different
types; and whilst most are interchangeable, some aren't...
nothing wrong with a range rover 3.5 9.35:1 - Ive just changed cam shaft followers all bearings piston rings fitted arp bolts/studs all round,and
changed efi for webber 500. so not much to do it to get good power and lots of pull in any gear.:
Paul
[Edited on 7/7/07 by Paul (Notts)]
quote:
Originally posted by Fatboy Dave
all the SD1s rotted away years ago.
quote:
The camshafts are all f**ked now anyway (they only las for about 60-70k before they wear to buggery and power begins to drop off), so bang in a 3.9 cam into your 3.5 for an approx 15bhp gain (you will need to alter fueling to take advantage of this to its full extent).
quote:
Land Rover engines post '86 (with the advent of EFI) are all 9.35:1 (unless you buy a utility engine on carbs, in which case it will be 8.13:1)
Hello chaps..
im just noticed this post and thought i would drop you a message..
just rebuilding my viento at the mo and decided to do a engine upgrade to a blown RV8 4.7..
anyway,
just took out a perfectley good RV8 out if your intrested.. was just getting all the bits i have together before bangin them on ebay..
theres a rv8 engine in good nick , also got a holly and offey to suit, the engine passed the sva with the holley carb no problem.. i got a 04 plate
at the time...
.. also got a few other bits.. spare viento lv350 chassis, complete set of wish bones, sierra 4x4 diff, set of 17" alloys with tyres bout
100miles on em.... ally petrol tank, and loads of other bits..
but anyway..
just thought i would ask in case your intrested in the engine..
p.s. the engine in my photos is me new one.. not the old one
[Edited on 7/7/07 by G3OFF]
EFI range rovers is all guises are generally 9.35:1, its only landrover V8's that tend to be lower comp ratio.
If you are worried look down by the dipstick, under the exhaust manifold there is a machined flat with engine number and comp ratio clearly
stamped.
All EFI range rovers have the same size valves as SD1's, the EFI has a slightly milder camshaft but injection makes up for this, although as
above a 3.9 cam will boost a 3.5 and is very similar.
SD1's on carbs do however have a superior inlet manifold to the rangerover one, easy to spot when you pull the choke out it operates on both
carbs, landrover/range rover is only on one. Some SD1's had horrible electronic choke, if you get this then bin the carbs.
On the subject of carbs, look for SU's and chop off the poppet valve on the butterfly and float solder over the hole, ie remove if completely and
grap a few more horses.
If I wanted one today I would source a rot range rover, if it drives well then scrap, flog the bits on and keep what you need.
NB/ as a donor you can use the column, switch gear etc so all you need is an axle and cortina uprights.
The EFI loom is completely seperate, flappy box or hot wire, you only need a couple of power wires and an earth !
Regards Mark
quote:
[Yeah, that's why SD1 engines are easy to come by!
quote:
Agreed - although the RV8 is very forgiving in terms of wear and tear and will still produce probably 90% of rated power with the main bearings shot, the camshaft worn and a number of other components less than perfect. That's the beauty of power through capacity versus power through "tuning".
quote:
A quick glance through the various engine numbers on this page suggests that many land rover/range rover engines are low compression engines.
quote:
Obviously this page doesn't mention production volumes so it may still be that 9.35:1 engines are more common but the fact remains that these engines are designed for torque not power.
quote:
Look at the specs for a range rover and you will see that peak power is developed at 4750RPM whereas the SD1 develops max power at 5250RPM. As smart51 said above, the high levels or torque will make it difficult to maintain traction. Good for pulling caravans though!!
quote:
There are loads of good books available for the RV8. You can see my own V8 bookshelf on the front page of my website at http://www.craig.chamberlain.name
I recommend the David Hardcastle books in particular as these provide good info on donor engine selection.
I've got most of them, in all production variations, including an autographed first edition of "The Rover V8 Engine". Did I mention that I am a V8 nerd?
quote:
Good luck!
Craig.
Indeed!
craig1410 - 7/7/07 at 11:41 PMV8 Nerd? Sounds about right!
I agree with much of what you are saying. Yes it is probably just the cam and EFi which make the difference in torque/power curve on the Range/Land Rover's. I was under the impression that lower compression engines were more common than you suggest but I don't know either way so I'm not going to labour the point.
I suppose where I'm coming from is the simplicity of the SD1 engine - mine is a 90k mile genuine engine which has been in a concourse SD1 show car and is still golden brown inside due to regular oil changes. It has a relatively simple electronic dizzy ignition and SU carbs and doesn't require a catalytic converter. I've not had to change any engine front covers, camshafts or anything else and have simply changed the oil, filled it with coolant and gave it a bit of a clean up. With a twin-sidepipe exhaust and ITG filters it will probably produce around 160BHP and then later with a bit of fettling 200BHP should be achievable without spending a huge amount of money. And then there's the sound!!
Cheers,
Craig.
Fatboy Dave - 8/7/07 at 12:15 AMOh, indeed! Not disputing those facts...
You just need to look inside the Rimmer Bros SD1 catalogue to get an idea of SD1 V8 production, versus Range Rover/Land Rover production to see why I stress the point so much.
The SD1 motor has many good things going for it; fortunately all those parts are easilly unbolted and swapped over