ross05
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 08:03 AM |
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BEC pros & cons
Looking at buying a kit car aug / sept westfield or sylva.
what are the pros and cons re bike engine cars?
I like the idea of bike engine as I was a motorcycle instructor,but how well do they adapt in a car!
what should be avoided / what is the ideal setup ?
how does the bec compare with say a 1800zetec or cvh/pinto?
cheers Russell
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scootz
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 08:10 AM |
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Morning Russell.
I suggest you stick the kettle on and make yourself a mug of coffee... then search the forum using "CEC v BEC" or similar terms!
Loads of reading to be found as this debate comes up regularly!
It's Evolution Baby!
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ali f27
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 08:25 AM |
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Hi bec great toy tear about trackday race etc pain in the arse long journey crusing etc Cec great long jouney more use if you want to do more
miles
Zetec cheap good spares etc short on power duratec more expensive to make fit but can tune for real power way faster than any bec apart from busa
turbo
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ReMan
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 08:27 AM |
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Lightweight car - Lightweight engine
www.plusnine.co.uk
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ross05
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 08:36 AM |
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bec power
cheers,
kettle on lets see what we can find!!!!!
thinking more for road use,sounds like bec a bit of a pain on the road (town driving) !!!
shame quite fancied a modern 4 wheeled bike.....
Russell 
[Edited on 27/2/12 by ross05]
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ali f27
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 08:41 AM |
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Not trying to put you off bec we have both just gearing and torque issuses etc sequential box is great fun you need to have a go in both before you
decide someone on here will offer i am sure
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ReMan
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 08:45 AM |
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Properly set up and geared there should be no issues with driving a BEC on the road everyday
www.plusnine.co.uk
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 08:57 AM |
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Stick to a Ford/Vauxhall/Car-Engined car. Car engines were designed for cars, you're looking at a car. Lots of torque, from a Chevy V8 (usually
found in a Dax), to a smaller lump (normally found in Westfields, etc.). The old Pinto lump still represents the pinnacle of kit car powerplants. The
engines themselves often come with nice bodywork around them as standard, with cup holders, heated seats and all sorts of essential stuff.
Bike engines produce very little torque, are unreliable. Nothing smaller than a Hayabusa is worth considering. There's no reverse as standard,
just all far too much hassle really. I wouldn't use one.
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 09:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ali f27
Hi bec great toy tear about trackday race etc pain in the arse long journey crusing etc Cec great long jouney more use if you want to do more
miles
Zetec cheap good spares etc short on power duratec more expensive to make fit but can tune for real power way faster than any bec apart from busa
turbo
I have always been interested by this point of view. I have been using my BEC a lot including in traffic rush hour driving and have found nether the
lack of torque or the clutch a problem. my longest motorway drive was 1 hour so maby I would notice it more with time.
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welderman
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 09:20 AM |
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BEC all the way for me, ive had 3 now builing my fourth. Done thousands of miles, track and road.
get intouch with Bob from spain, bobinspain is his user name, he might be close by to you, he has a BEC
Thank's, Joe 
I don't stalk people
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=172301
Back on with the Fisher Fury R1
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loggyboy
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 09:27 AM |
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There is only one thing that would swing me to a BEC - if I wanted a sequential change without spending £ks on a quaife or similar car gearbox.
All the other 'fors and againsts' can be offset and balanced out by various vaild arguments.
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The Venom Project
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 09:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Stick to a Ford/Vauxhall/Car-Engined car. Car engines were designed for cars, you're looking at a car. Lots of torque, from a Chevy V8 (usually
found in a Dax), to a smaller lump (normally found in Westfields, etc.). The old Pinto lump still represents the pinnacle of kit car powerplants. The
engines themselves often come with nice bodywork around them as standard, with cup holders, heated seats and all sorts of essential stuff.
Bike engines produce very little torque, are unreliable. Nothing smaller than a Hayabusa is worth considering. There's no reverse as standard,
just all far too much hassle really. I wouldn't use one.
You have to be kidding with reliability?
You won't go wrong with a Jap engine, I have owned 11 bikes, non ever let me down, done some serious miles on them, the power is awesome, you
say no torque, what about a V-Twin engine?
You would find a Honda SP1 engine to have more than enough power for any Kit Car like a Westfield etc:
Bike engines produce more power for the money than a car engine, if you stick to R1, Fireblade, Busa, there are millions of them for parts. Carbs
work much faster and smoother than a car, which is why a lot of people have a manifold made up to accept Bike Carbs.
Of course it all depends how you have it setup, but my TR1KE set running standard chain and sprockets will give more fun per mile than any car powered
vehicle.
It's not that i'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.....
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ReMan
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 09:58 AM |
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Kidding or trolling
www.plusnine.co.uk
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ali f27
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 10:17 AM |
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coudn,t put a sp1 in a westfield not enough carbon fibre on it
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 11:13 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Stick to a Ford/Vauxhall/Car-Engined car. Car engines were designed for cars, you're looking at a car. Lots of torque, from a Chevy V8 (usually
found in a Dax), to a smaller lump (normally found in Westfields, etc.). The old Pinto lump still represents the pinnacle of kit car powerplants. The
engines themselves often come with nice bodywork around them as standard, with cup holders, heated seats and all sorts of essential stuff.
Bike engines produce very little torque, are unreliable. Nothing smaller than a Hayabusa is worth considering. There's no reverse as standard,
just all far too much hassle really. I wouldn't use one.
My car "only" has a 900, 150 bhp @ fly wheel, 510 kg wet weight. Near enough 300 bhp/tonne. This is the low end of BEC engines and it
goes like stink. Torque is not an issue at all and the sequential box is brilliant flat out or just trotting around.
I would suggest trying both and making your own mind up.
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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loggyboy
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 11:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Stick to a Ford/Vauxhall/Car-Engined car. Car engines were designed for cars, you're looking at a car. Lots of torque, from a Chevy V8 (usually
found in a Dax), to a smaller lump (normally found in Westfields, etc.). The old Pinto lump still represents the pinnacle of kit car powerplants. The
engines themselves often come with nice bodywork around them as standard, with cup holders, heated seats and all sorts of essential stuff.
Bike engines produce very little torque, are unreliable. Nothing smaller than a Hayabusa is worth considering. There's no reverse as standard,
just all far too much hassle really. I wouldn't use one.
Why is it a few havent spotted the intended humor in this post.... lol
I mean just look at the 'building' section of his username!
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fesycresy
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 11:41 AM |
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or the comment,
The old Pinto lump still represents the pinnacle of kit car powerplants
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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scudderfish
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 12:05 PM |
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Pinto, Hyabusa etc are all gutless rubbish!
Stick a V8 in it 
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Rod Ends
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 12:23 PM |
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CEC
BEC
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 12:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Stick to a Ford/Vauxhall/Car-Engined car. Car engines were designed for cars, you're looking at a car. Lots of torque, from a Chevy V8 (usually
found in a Dax), to a smaller lump (normally found in Westfields, etc.). The old Pinto lump still represents the pinnacle of kit car powerplants. The
engines themselves often come with nice bodywork around them as standard, with cup holders, heated seats and all sorts of essential stuff.
Bike engines produce very little torque, are unreliable. Nothing smaller than a Hayabusa is worth considering. There's no reverse as standard,
just all far too much hassle really. I wouldn't use one.
Why is it a few havent spotted the intended humor in this post.... lol
I mean just look at the 'building' section of his username!
Oops missed the username. Must try harder !
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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ReMan
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 12:58 PM |
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I liked this bit ;D
"The engines themselves often come with nice bodywork around them as standard, with cup holders, heated seats and all sorts of essential
stuff"
www.plusnine.co.uk
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Hellfire
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 01:14 PM |
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Copied & pasted from previous posts. As it is a definitive guide though, maybe we should get it made into a Sticky............
Lets deal with bike engines first.....
Pro’s
1 - Performance - Standard bike engine and gearbox = more bhp/kg than your standard car engine and gearbox (in most cases) which makes for awesome
acceleration
2 - 13,000 rpm Soundtrack - Superb noise
3 - Advanced Technology. How many normally aspirated 1,200cc car engines do you know that produce 180 Bhp?
4 - Lightweight & compact = Easier to handle and no need for special lifting gear
5 - Mechanically, they are easier to maintain. Clutch changes etc
6 - Cheaper Vehicle Excise Duty (Tax, to you and me)
7 - Far cheaper import tax (In case you ever consider emigrating to somewhere like……… Cyprus)
8 - Smaller & easier to clean – therefore more environmentally friendly
Con’s
1 - Standard bike engine is likely to be more expensive than your standard car engine
I haven't included 'no reverse gear' because that can be both a 'Pro' and a 'Con'
Now onto car engines (apart from Honda S2000, which technically in my mind is made by Honda, so also a bike engine)
Pro's
Nope, can't think of any. I'm really struggling on this one..............
Con's
1 - Too heavy
2 - Too slow
3 - Too oily
4 - Unreliable
5 - It's a car engine
So there you have it...... A definitive guide to the pro's and con's of BEC & CEC.......
Now onto the 'red herring' that the CEC boys like to throw in regarding torque;
It is quite difficult to compare torque like for like in BEC v CEC. There is a common misconception that bike engines lack torque due to figures being
quoted at the crank. But what you need to consider, is that bike engines have a torque multiplier in the form of a primary reduction gear. So in the
real world, BEC torque actually isn't as low as it would first appear............
Phil
[Edited on 27-2-12 by Hellfire]
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loggyboy
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 02:05 PM |
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Lets just unbias this a little and stick to (mainly) facts. (IMO!)
BECS
Pro’s
1 - Weight - light weight means more BHP/Tonne
2 - Lightweight & compact = Easier to handle and no need for special lifting gear
3 - Built on Sequential Gearbox.
4 - Cheaper Vehicle Excise Duty (Road tac) based on most bike engines being under 1549cc. (£130.00 where as anything over 1549cc is £215)
5 - Smaller /more compact - easier instalation into small engine bays (ie midi style car)
Con’s
1 - Bike engines are likely to be more expensive than a car engine
2- Gearboxes can be considered 'rough' or 'harsh' for slower driving.
3 - No reverse - New required for IVA, so you will need an expensive reverse gearbox, or a custom 'starter motor' based reverse set up.
4 - Lack of torque, despite any arguments its not the case, BECs do generlly have a lot less torque than CECs, and as BECs are intended to be used on
sub 200kg bikes, sticking them im a 500kg kit can lead to needing to be in the right gear at the right time, everytime.
5 - (linked with above), Gear ratios can be harder to get 'right'.
6 - If aiming for a 'New registration' then using a 'reconditioned to as new ' bike engine/gearbox combo counts as 2
components, meaning you will need to use (or atleast provide evidence) that the engine is 'new'
Neutral These can be used as pros or cons depending on your preference
Noise - Bike engines sound great, but are also loud!
CECS
Pro's
1. Cheaper and easier to come by.
2. Higher levels of torque to suit the weight of a kit car.
3. Engines are seperate to gearboxes meaning an easier 'new registration' should that be your preference
4. 1 Donor build (ie 1 donor car, and kit car chassis/parts and you have all you need)
Con's
1 - Heavier than BECs
[Edited on 28/2/12 by loggyboy]
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ross05
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 02:09 PM |
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bec v cec
excellent info looks like a BEC for me or is it a CEC need to drive one when back in the uk
electric reverse is it any good ? 
cheers chaps
Russell
[Edited on 27/2/12 by ross05]
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Andy D
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| posted on 27/2/12 at 02:20 PM |
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If you're intending to do trackdays, a big "con" with a BEC is noise. Circuits are getting tighter on noise limits all the time.
Anyway, here's a vid of my slow, heavy, unreliable... oily, granted! Pinto chasing a BEC round Teesside kart track. (With a queasy passenger
on board)
BEC v Anchor
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