les
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 08:21 PM |
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R1 bike carb problems
Dear all,
I am really struggling with my r1 bike carbs- 2 L zetec engine and bogg brothers manifold,
they run great under normal conditions but when under hard left hand cornering on the track they splutter and the engine hesitates only picking up
again when the car is straight.
I guess fuel starvation as i have mentioned in a previous post- I have now installed a swirl pot and still have the problem!! Can anyone post some
pictures or description of their setups- pump and fuel line locations / diameters /
My last hope seems to be to move everything...
Les
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 08:22 PM |
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What fuel pump is being used??
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les
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 08:25 PM |
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hi,
I started with a facet solid state "fast road" pump, then when I fitted the swirlpot, I went for red top fuelling the swirlpot, then facet
competition spec solid state pump to the carbs via a filer king filter / regulator.
As a test i removed the filter king regulator and ran the competition pump direct to the carbs- they ran fine but still had the problem
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 08:34 PM |
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Personally i would stick to a bike pump with bike carbs myself. They only run at very low pressure of about 1.5psi but have heard of so many issues
with car spec pumps i would suspect this is where the issue lies. Without the regulator, i am sure the pressure must be more than twice the pressure
required.
Do the R1 carbs have a 6mm or 8mm fuel inlet?? Go with that between the swirl pot (if you can) via a bike pump (cheap off ebay) and to the carbs and i
recon your problem will vanish.
[Edited on 4/3/09 by Paul TigerB6]
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jacko
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 08:34 PM |
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If a bike pump i ok for a bike revving at 13000rpm it should be ok for your car
thats what i have and its been great
What size tube / fuel pipe are you using ?
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Andy B
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 08:36 PM |
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just a thought - does the manifold alter the angle of the carbs compared to how they would sit on the bike - if so it is possible that the float bowl
floats are being closed before they should allowing the bowls to run empty.
Could be totally wrong but thought it might be worth a look
regards
Andy
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 08:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Andy B
just a thought - does the manifold alter the angle of the carbs compared to how they would sit on the bike
If they do, then Bogg Brothers who are supposedly the experts need a kicking but it would certainly cause the problem wouldnt it!!
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les
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 08:40 PM |
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Hi,
The rear flexible tubes to and from the swirlpot / tank are 8mm I think. the main copper fuel pipe is supplied by tiger I think it might be 6mm.
bike pump seems logical- its about the only thing i havent tried,
anyone know if it could be an internal problem in the carbs- the position and orientation os obviously different to a bike- is it possible that under
high corner loadings they just dont work?
Les
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will121
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 08:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Andy B
just a thought - does the manifold alter the angle of the carbs compared to how they would sit on the bike - if so it is possible that the float bowl
floats are being closed before they should allowing the bowls to run empty.
Could be totally wrong but thought it might be worth a look
regards
Andy
would agree with andy more likely to be fuel in carbs float bowl being forced across and away from main jet, idea check mounting angle and also fuel
level in bowl and float height may be able to adjust float level a bit
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whitestu
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 08:51 PM |
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Unless the carbs are way off the angle on the bike I'd be surprised if this was the problem.
My carbs are 30 degrees off what they were on the ZX6R and work perfectly.
Stu
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les
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 08:52 PM |
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thanks guys That all makes sense,
Ill take a picture and post it of the the installation- the manifold angles them up from the horizontal a bit, difficult to estimate the angle say 15-
20 degrees, certainlt well under 45. would that be sufficient?
anything I can do to check / change the floats to get them working?
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smart51
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 08:52 PM |
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It sounds like in hard corners, all the fuel is whooshing away from the jets. Either the angle is wrong so the floats are closing off the fuel supply
too soon or the float level is set too low.
1) check the carb mounting angle. It has to be the same as in the bike as the float level is critical for proper operation
2) check the float level in all the carbs.
My R1 engine uses R1 carbs and it works well on the track. I am using an R1 pump though. It pumps exactly 1 litre per minute. That's over 13
gallons per hour. Should be more than enough for a 4 pot engine of any sort.
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les
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 08:57 PM |
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thanks smart51,
Its good to hear that they can work on track- do you have a photo of the angle?
as said i would hope bogg brothers got it right, but they are close to the horizontal.
bike pump must be the next step- at least to eliminate that as a cause- if the angles wrong I think it would be a major pain to change-
Les
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will121
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 09:13 PM |
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just found this page 271 explains how to check float height and subsequent fuel level in bowl, if Bogg manifold would think mounting angle ok, is it
on long sweeping bends?
R1 workshop
manual
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coozer
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 09:22 PM |
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I suggest the easiest fix is do away with all the swirl pot, regulate etc and replace with a bike pump.
I'm sure that will solve your problem.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Andy B
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 09:37 PM |
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I agree with Coozer the most common problem we see in this scenario is overfuelling caused by too much pressure and a regulator that relies on a
spring and diaphragm to set a "constant" pressure.
Bumps, G force and inclination all affect the malpassi type regs - I know one nearly cost me a finish at the tt in 99
Most Westfield megablade owners find that the cheapest tune they can ever get is dumping the facet pump and regulator and returning to the blade low
pressure item. Interestingly this also requires upping the main jets from around 126 to 132 which points to the jet beng used almost like an injector
due to over pressuring the float bowl instead of picking up fuel by venturi and using the jet as a meter.
Hope that helps
Andy
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les
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 09:46 PM |
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thanks guys thats fantastic,
Ill get a bike pump as a starting point and see where i am.
actually it happens in any left hand bend if you are going hard enough- noticed it first at brands hatch indy- through graham hill bend and then also
through the fast left after that- so its quite an immediate effect if the cornering forces are high enough.
anyone give me year they changed over to fuel injection on the r1 so I get the right pump?!
Les
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les
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 09:54 PM |
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incidentally,
the only connection to the carbs is the fuel line- after advice on the tiger forum I left all the other inlets / outlets open.
would that affect things?
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Andy B
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| posted on 4/3/09 at 09:54 PM |
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To my knowledge r1 went inj 2002
regards
Andy
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