Promai Joe
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 07:53 PM |
|
|
BHP/｣ what kind of solutions are there?
Hi
Basically I understand the principles of tuning, but have no practical skills yet. My car is powered with a 2litre pinto, naturally aspirated in a
single carb (size unknown, sorry for sounding dumb is there an easy way to determine the size?).
Anyway the question is, how best to spend money attempting to get more bhp? If you have any tried and tested ideas please post next to the estimated
cost. Reliability is also important to me.
｣1-｣100
｣100 - ｣250
｣250 - ｣500
｣500 - ｣1000
｣1000+ (expect not to see the word pinto much)
I have always fancied a supercharger after watching mad max as a kid, any ideas
|
|
|
|
|
Jon Ison
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 07:59 PM |
|
|
Why do you want more power ?
If its to go "faster" for the 1st ｣500 or so spent it would-be better spent on the chassis/car set up than the engine.
I ran pintos years back, to get real power you need real money, personally bite the bullet and fit a red top for instant grunt.
|
|
|
zilspeed
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 08:07 PM |
|
|
Bear in mind that a 2.0 Pinto using the standard carb, ford cam, no real tuning as such, but well built and tuned can make 135bhp in FF2000 or Sports
2000 trim.
Standard power in the front of your MKIV Cortina back in the day ?
101bhp, same engine, same spec.
The sensible thing to do is make sure it is in good order and well serviced, then take it for a proper setup on the rollers to optimise jetting and
ignition timing.
Maybe even fit a vernier pulley at little cost to allow some monor fiddling with cam timing.
That would all make sure it's optimised to be all it can be.
101bhp vs 135bhp form the same engine spec ?
|
|
|
littlefeller
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 08:30 PM |
|
|
the most cost effective bang for your buck is n2o
|
|
|
Confused but excited.
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 08:32 PM |
|
|
From what I have read on here, the cheapest way to get more power from a pinto, is to swap it for a1.8 zetec with 2.0 litre cams.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
|
|
|
pajsh
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 08:37 PM |
|
|
I've been through this one as many have and so I'll offer my limited experience. Costs add up quickly with small things so there is no
cheap fix.
Problem with most answers you get are they are woolly and not much help. Whilst I respect Johns advice and he's right but, without some hard
facts it's not easy to make a choice.
I did consider a more modern and lighter engine (Zetec/Duratec) but for several reasons I stuck with a Pinto
1. I already had a 1.6 Pinto so the swap to 2.0l was easy and didn't involve any changes to mounting, exhaust, electronics, fueling or drive
shafts.
2. I'm learning about engines so wanted the simplicity of the Pinto
3. I didn't want to mess with injection, cats and related electronics and engine maps.
So I re-built a 205 block and spent roughly the following
Kent RL21 cam & vernier pulley - ｣200 (2nd hand cam)
Dellorto 40's - ｣300 with trumpets, socks, manifold & linkages
Headwork - ｣400 (cash ;-)) inlet & exhaust ported, valves re-seated & replaced
Megajolt 3D - ｣180 including trigger wheel, coil pack, EDIS & sensors
Lightened Flywheel - ｣65
Tune up on rolling road ｣250 (cash ;-))
Add that to all the small bits like gaskets, ARP rod & flywheel bolts, chopped sump, etc. and I spent at least ｣1,500.
Personally I'd start with a cam change then look at maybe a bike carb set up after that.
Changing to a Duratec may have cost less I guess but the extra costs in changing the car to suit the engine and the potential electronic and emission
problems put me off. Maybe someone will throw some costs at the modern option.
I used to be apathetic but now I just don't care.
|
|
|
Mr Whippy
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 08:40 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Confused but excited.
From what I have read on here, the cheapest way to get more power from a pinto, is to swap it for a1.8 zetec with 2.0 litre cams.
tbh very true, for all I love the pinto it's performance is really lame compared to a modern engine of the same size, it's only true
benifit is the simplicity and easy emissions test
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
|
|
|
mcerd1
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 09:00 PM |
|
|
the zetec will give you issues in the dax chassis (assuming its the pinto chassis)
I beleve the back of the engine ends up hard against the chassis rail and gives you no room for the thremostat/water rail - on the dax zetec chassis
they leave a bit more room at this point - obviously ther are ways round this but its a bit of a PITA
don't know how easily a duratec would fit as I've not seen anyone do this swap in a rush yet....
the redtop/xe swap has been done plenty of times though
I vote for the pinto aswell - but then I would because thats what I'm putting in my rush 
The head is were the power is in the pinto - I'd go for a cam first (newmans, piper or kent) then carbs, then porting/valves and a bit of a skim
to up the CR, ignition, full bottom end ballance/lightening - then more CC's
twin Dellorto's or webbers are quite pricy, but bike carbs will give you the same bang for less bucks
I went way OTT and spent more than I'm going to admit to on mine and the car isn't even on the road yet - I've gone for the all
steel bottom end etc.... its basicaly a 2.1 NA cossie with a pinto head now, the bottom end should be good for 9000rpm+ 
only thing I havn't done is port the head, but that can wait till its been on the road a wee while
quote:
Originally posted by pajshChanging to a Duratec may have cost less I guess but the extra costs in changing the car to suit the engine
and the potential electronic and emission problems put me off. Maybe someone will throw some costs at the modern option.
^^ but since his cars on the road he could run the duratec on carbs if he wanted  (might be a bit of a waste though...)
[Edited on 18/5/2011 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 18/5/2011 by mcerd1]
-
|
|
|
littlefeller
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 09:01 PM |
|
|
take a look on some of the capri forums, its free advise
|
|
|
mark chandler
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 09:15 PM |
|
|
The standard ford cam is actually pretty good, the best thing you can do is buy the book on tuning these by David Visard, get some steel burrs from
ebay, vernier cam adjuster and a head skim, I assume you already have a banana exhaust.
A day fettling the head, 1/4" skim and set the cam up with 7 degrees advance will get you near 135BHP so 30% more for ~｣200.
Regards Mark
|
|
|
Jon Ison
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 09:41 PM |
|
|
One thing not mentioned yet, try to find a set of roller followers the pinto set up is agricultural, roller followers free up a bit of power and are
soooooo much more kinder on the cam, if your upgrading the cam go for a cross drilled one and ditch the crap spray bar, as for porting the ports are
already pretty big, so a clean up is pretty much all that is required unless you want to get serious in which case you need to be adding material to
the inlet ports not taking it away.
Back in the 80's I had a all singing and dancing Dave Brookes downdraft head, fancy rimflow big valves, emerald cam, steel bum end, the engine
was high maintenance low power compared to the red tops around at the same time.
Personally if I had a pinto under the bonnet I would leave as is, any under the bonnet upgrade would see the pinto engine ousted, but that's
just me.
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 09:52 PM |
|
|
you could do a budget bike engine swap for under a grand. Maybe ｣300 for a zx9 or fireblade, ｣300 on an exhaust, ｣200 on prop and adapter, and the
change on fittings.
I managed a BEC transplant by myself with little technical knowledge, certainly never rebuilt engines or anything like that, in just a month or so
IIRC.
|
|
|
iank
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 10:10 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
Why do you want more power ?
If its to go "faster" for the 1st ｣500 or so spent it would-be better spent on the chassis/car set up than the engine.
And the driver, for 99% of people going onto a decent driver course will save seconds per lap.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
|
|
|
matt_gsxr
|
| posted on 18/5/11 at 10:26 PM |
|
|
The great thing about older engines (my gsxr1100 is a 95 engine) is that there are loads of people with them who are moving to newer engines.
Why not look out for a spicy Pinto that someone else has already put money into and then moved on. I would imagine that they are pretty common and
must be very cost effective.
|
|
|
zilspeed
|
| posted on 19/5/11 at 06:07 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
The standard ford cam is actually pretty good, the best thing you can do is buy the book on tuning these by David Visard, get some steel burrs from
ebay, vernier cam adjuster and a head skim, I assume you already have a banana exhaust.
A day fettling the head, 1/4" skim and set the cam up with 7 degrees advance will get you near 135BHP so 30% more for ~｣200.
Regards Mark
+1
(Seeing as we're pretty much saying the same stuff. Total spend, very little. don't spend shedloads. Make sure the engine works, the
chassis works and the driver works.)
|
|
|
scudderfish
|
| posted on 19/5/11 at 06:26 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
Why do you want more power ?
If its to go "faster" for the 1st ｣500 or so spent it would-be better spent on the chassis/car set up than the engine.
And the driver, for 99% of people going onto a decent driver course will save seconds per lap.
+1
http://www.carlimits.com
|
|
|
alistairolsen
|
| posted on 19/5/11 at 07:30 AM |
|
|
Either buy a good pinto someone else has bankrupted themselves building or get rid of the archaic boat anchor altogether for something with a proper
valvetrain and fuel injection.
The head/manifolding is where the power is made in any engine, everything else merely facilitates that. The pinto is exceptionally poor as a starting
point given the availability of good, low mileage modern engines IMO.
My Build Thread
|
|
|
FASTdan
|
| posted on 19/5/11 at 08:27 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by pajsh
Changing to a Duratec may have cost less I guess but the extra costs in changing the car to suit the engine and the potential electronic and emission
problems put me off. Maybe someone will throw some costs at the modern option.
Our Duratec swap from a Pinto:
2.3 Engine ｣350 (ok so we got a bargain, expect maybe ｣500 for a 2.0 normally?)
RWD Motorsport Mechanical (not Hydraulic) Bellhousing, Release Arm, Clutch, Flywheel Combo ｣600段sh
Late ZX9R 40mm Carbs ｣80 (TPS type)
Manifold + Fitting Kit for Carbs ｣170
Convert Pinto 4 branch to suit Duratec approx ｣100 (paying someone to do it and buying flange)
Megajolt + EDIS + Coilpack ｣240段sh
Engine Mounts ｣85
Cooling System (mech thermostat, alu tube, silicone hose etc) ｣120段sh
Total ｣1745段sh. Obviously we saved a fair amount on that in making engine mounts, manifolds etc. Only thing not included is the sump, I知 guessing
the cheapest off the shelf option would be Flakmonkeys mild steel kit but I don稚 have a price for that. We modded the standard one which cost nothing
other than my time. You could also save a ｣200-300 by economizing on the sourcing of ignition and the clutch/flywheel set-up.
Not the cheapest conversion when you compare to some of the turbo options (200SX etc) but for a very non-stressed, incredibly smooth engine putting
out circa 200bhp I think its great.
NEW danST WEBSITE NOW LIVE! Bike carbs, throttle bodies and more......
http://www.danstengineering.co.uk/
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
scootz
|
| posted on 19/5/11 at 08:32 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
Why not look out for a spicy Pinto that someone else has already put money into and then moved on. I would imagine that they are pretty common and
must be very cost effective.
+1
It's Evolution Baby!
|
|
|
scootz
|
| posted on 19/5/11 at 08:32 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by alistairolsen
Either buy a good pinto someone else has bankrupted themselves building...
+1 (or is it 2)
It's Evolution Baby!
|
|
|
Toniq-r
|
| posted on 19/5/11 at 08:37 AM |
|
|
Just blow your budget and get a Hayabusa then bolt on a supercharger
|
|
|
coozer
|
| posted on 19/5/11 at 10:17 AM |
|
|
Theres tons of cheap Rover V8's lying around...
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
|
|
|
alistairolsen
|
| posted on 19/5/11 at 11:34 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Theres tons of cheap Rover V8's lying around...
there's a reason for that....
My Build Thread
|
|
|
FASTdan
|
| posted on 19/5/11 at 12:01 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by alistairolsen
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Theres tons of cheap Rover V8's lying around...
there's a reason for that....
LOL 
NEW danST WEBSITE NOW LIVE! Bike carbs, throttle bodies and more......
http://www.danstengineering.co.uk/
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
Doctor Derek Doctors
|
| posted on 19/5/11 at 12:33 PM |
|
|
The problem is that you're trying to tune an engine that was pretty crap to start with.
Best thing to do would be to start with something decent. A full AB Performance 919 Fireblade set-up including the Billet sump and prop adaptor went
for ｣650 on ebay last weekend, that would have given you more power to start with than a Pinto is capable of with a lot of tuning. It would have only
reqiuired a prop' and exhaust to get running.
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
