metel matt
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| posted on 9/4/16 at 09:44 AM |
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Turbo or supercharge
So I've just about finished my car waiting for my IVA re test and Im thinking put a turbo on or supercharger. I have a Mazda Mk2.5 1.8vvt
engine. I'm not going to do it straight away but going to buy bits as I see them and to the mods over next winter. We all have to have something
to do on those dark long nights.
So pros and cons and what would you go for
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mark chandler
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| posted on 9/4/16 at 01:13 PM |
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I have a supercharged car on the road, I love it lots of constant power, feels like a large capacity n/a engine.
I have a turbocharged track car, it's mental as the power leaps in so feels more exciting, but....... Come out of a corner and a tiny bit of lag
is very noticeable when you floor it.
Turbo is much easier and cheaper to do, I would invest the extra and supercharge but as a BEC getting the power off the crank is an issue.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 9/4/16 at 06:10 PM |
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Turbo'd Vauxhall engine. Smallish turbo, boosts from 1800rpm so no noticeable lag. Nearly 300bhp and over 300ftlb
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
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Rob Allison
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 07:48 AM |
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http://www.g19engineering.com/
they have done a lot of mx5 converstions
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russtik
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 09:26 AM |
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I think you're on the right lines with forced induction as N/A tuning the MX5 engine seems expensive for little gains. In "bang for
buck" terms it seems the favoured route is turbo, I had a turbocharged MX5 engine in a kit and it is a lot of fun. There are a few options now
with people making turbo kits for not a lot of money, search 'black cat fabrication' on Facebook. My advise would be to pay special
attention to the material used in your turbo manifold, get a cheap mild steel log manifold from someone like Black Cat or prepare to spend a lot more
money and get an equal length tubular manifold made in 321 stainless. Lots of people will make you a log or tubular manifold in 304 or 316 stainless
but this is the wrong material and they will crack due to something called carbide precipitation in which the metal changes properties through the
intense heat cycling that happens with turbos. When this happens the manifold is scrap.
Alternatively you can supercharge which will avoid the above manifold considerations but brings its own set of complications nonetheless. I'd
probably be looking towards the Eaton MP62 in this situation. Again, take a look on Facebook for 'RedSeven Auto Engineering', he's
done some S/C installations in kits.
SouthernKitCars.com
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nick205
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 11:44 AM |
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Not driven turbo or supercharged petrols so can't really comment on those. I have been driving turbo diesels for many years (can't
currently due to epilepsy) and found them to be really very good. Yes you have limited rev range with diesel, but the power delivery is very good and
the engines pull hard. That said the manufacturers probably spend a lot of time and money to make it work as well as it does.
A close friend of mine has recently acquired a VW Golf, which I believe is a turbo and supercharged 1.4L petrol. He's very pleased with it and
from memory likes to get a move on.
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metel matt
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 12:16 PM |
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Thanks for that gents.
russtik
just had a look on Facebook and some good work. Ill be going to Stoneleigh and having a good look around turbo/ supercharger car.
The only down side is my car is not going to be registered in time to take
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sdh2903
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 12:28 PM |
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Don't know if you've seen garyt's build? He's just finished a supercharged vvt engine.
http://locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/50/viewthread.php?tid=191346
I've got a mk1 1.8 mx5 engine in storage that I've been deliberating over what to do with. I'm torn between the blink motorsport 160
package or turbo/supercharge. If going forced I'd actually swung towards turbo ing using an Ickle tdo4 turbo. Purely because it's a bit
easier to package and cheaper. Using this turbo I've been assured that with correct mapping it'll be on boost by 2000rpm so no issues with
lag.
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russtik
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 12:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
I'm torn between the blink motorsport 160 package or turbo/supercharge
That's not a cheap route and you've about hit your ceiling of where you'd want to take that engine on a reasonable cost : outcome
ratio. Turbo will get you way beyond that power figure and bring a load more torque to the party. Depends how you like to drive though, some people
prefer wringing the neck of lower powered N/A engines in the upper rev range as opposed to being pushed down the road by boost.
[Edited on 12/4/16 by russtik]
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sdh2903
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 01:06 PM |
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If you actually break it down with what you get its actually bloody good value considering it transforms the engine. But yes I agree the scope for
higher power is limited and with forced induction the rods then become the limiting factor.
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richardm6994
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 01:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by russtik
take a look on Facebook for 'RedSeven Auto Engineering', he's done some S/C installations in kits.
Many thanks for the nod. RedSeven is my little venture and if I can assist or offer any guidance or photos which would help with your own charger
installation, I'd be more than happy so please don't hesitate to get in touch.
BTW; trying to avoid breaking any forum rules here, but I'm hoping to start selling MX5 supercharger kits (similar to the mx5 engined
roadrunner SR2 on the redseven facebook page) for around £1100 (complete bolt on package ready for you to plumb your own boost pipes). I'm going
to be making them in batches of 5 kits with the first batch planned for completion around the beginning of 2017. However availability of these kits is
massively dependant upon how much work Redseven has got on as the supercharger kits will be my fill-in work in between Redseven projects.
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rdodger
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 01:50 PM |
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Turbo is by far the best most cost effective way to more power on an MX5
As already linked manifolds are available for Subaru Turbos
Megasquirt pre built or kit ECU's are available from many places. I used a Reverant ECU (from MX5 NUTZ) Highly recommended. Lots of others are
available.
I went with a specific MX5 MP62 supercharger kit and although it was great it was probably 50% more expensive in the end than going turbo and made
slightly less power. Doing it again I would turbo.
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Rob Allison
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| posted on 13/4/16 at 06:55 PM |
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Neither way is cheap to do, but i will say they are fun. I have a 2.0 pinto with a turbo on and its fun.
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garyt
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| posted on 14/4/16 at 10:27 AM |
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haha do it DO IT,
thanks sdh2903 for the pointer, don't know exactly what she is making yet once properly on the road I will get her on the rollers and see, just
waiting for a reg number grrrrrr
but yes there are heaps of photos in my build archive , but to summarise;
Eaton m45 s/c
mini bypass valve
vw Passat intercooler
mx5 t/b without electrics
cone air filter
std injectors
std mx5 mk2.5 (2003) ecu
I started by making a 6mm steel plate and mounted the s/c on the handy redundant bolt holes in front of the nearside engine mount as I didn't
want any holes in the bonnet . Make sure it is aligned parallel with engine centerline and the (smaller) nose pulley aligned with the pas portion of
the crank pulley
Once mounted I made up the s/c outlet, fairly straight forward fabrication, take care making the flange then add the main outlet and then the bypass
inlet to the rear of it.
make up the s/c inlet adaptor make a flange to suit and then ovalise a piece of tube at one end to suit flange opening (hit with big hammer to ovalise
)
so now working backwards a 90 deg silicone bend then goes up in front of the bulkhead, to the t/b / bypass take off. The T/B was mounted just above
the footwell, piped to the O/S to the std maf and cone filter to collect cooler air
so now going forwards
I used an S silicone hose ( 2 x 90 deg) to connect to a vw Passat I/C mounted to just fit under the nose cone . The air intake temp sensor was now
installed in the I/C outlet and this connected up to the main T/B on the plenum
(The I/C was installed as such just over the and behind the rad at the approx. 30deg as such there is no restriction to the rad airflow and the hot
air exiting the rear of the rad should create negative pressure behind the I/c thus pulling air through it. at least that's the thinking
.....lol)
tensioner ........
this was made up very simply with the parts from the pas pump and a bracket made up to mount it where the pas pump was
exhaust............
again working backwards and to get the best breathing that I could, exhaust with a 2.5" inlet /outlet, a 2.5" inlet/outlet sport cat
(mounted inside the bodywork) angled up and forwards at approx. 45 deg.
this then left a gap from the cat to the exhaust ports  mmmmmmm
so this is the creative bit, take 1 std exhaust manifold and chop of the pipes at the flange then I used some 2" pipe and bends to make up the
manifold and a 2.5" 90deg bend to align to the cat, ovalise and shape the manifold end, once happy mark out and cut the hole where they meet and
weld up . You then end up with a manifold similar to a miata turbo one
With that lot connected and tidied I then added an innovate wideband O2 sensor to keep an eye on the fuelling and a boost gauge aswell so that I could
see with the 2 that the std ecu was coping (nb the mk 2.5 ecu IS very different to the earlier ones)
In all I am very happy with it , it sounds great and drives out of this world she is so quick
If any one wants more info / sizes / pics let me know and I will do my best to help out. What I would say again is....... DO IT
remember we are not mad just creatively insane !!!!!
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 15/4/16 at 12:07 PM |
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The answer, of someone who got bored of a turbocharged car, is compound super-turbo
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