Not knowing a lot about bike engines and knowing you are all a little shy when it comes to giving your opinions 
I'd like you to list your top bec engines for power and pull. Also if this makes sense so I can get an idea of how much of a step up from one to
the next is try to put a % better than the last in the list.. example (with no idea).. Best = top, worst at the bottom.
ZZr1400 = 8%
ZX12R = 5%
R1 = 10%
ZX10R 5%
ZX9R.. %? than last
Lets not get too serious as each to their own opinion hey. Just to give an idea to those like me which engines would be worth either buying/changing
and if it would be worth the money/effort.
i would if i knew the numbers but unfortuantly i dont, just thaught it might help get it started but hey
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by omega0684
And strangely, all 10 of these different engines have been to your car in the last year!
And broken 
FFTS - 2/3/10 at 09:52 AM
Ahh well. It was probably too much to expect to get some serious answers 
And as for the requested format of top 10 ranking WITH % how much better than the last!!! Well after all..
This isn't the MENSA forum hey So sorry for making it beyond your mental process limits hahahaha.
Also, I know some R1's etc have better years than others but I'm looking for an overall view of the different models i.e .. R1, ZX9R, ZX10R,
Fireblade etc. When theres enough opinions I'll even publish a list of the overall top 10 by your votes.
Anyone want to try how it should be?
[Edited on 2/3/10 by FFTS]
dan__wright - 2/3/10 at 10:42 AM
people arnt going to know what other engine produce, you would be better asking people to provide details of their engine and the power it produces,
you can the take average and work out yourself the %s
if its not that hard why do you need people to do it for you?
[Edited on 2/3/10 by dan__wright]
FFTS - 2/3/10 at 10:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by dan__wright
people arnt going to know what other engine produce, you would be better asking people to provide details of their engine and the power it produces,
you can the take average and work out yourself the %s
if its not that hard why do you need people to do it for you? If you don't wish to participate, feel free not to haha.
[Edited on 2/3/10 by dan__wright]
Well not quite so!! There will be people on here who are bike mechanics, owned lots of bikes, had several becs, tune bike engines etc, not just
someone like me who has never owned a bike and got my first Bec. If I ask for opinions on someones sole owned engine then I can compare "I like
my R1, its the best" statements. Its just like asking "If I bought a low mileage standard engine how would they stack up against each
other?"
I'm sure this started off simple
Anyway.. It's my thread and I can ask for what I want.. Ner ner nee ner ner 
And while I'm on my hi horse as an example. I only own one parachute at the moment but I've been skydiving 24 years and can tell you
anything you want about the performance of pretty much any canopy out there. I'm sure the bike/Bec world has it's equivalents
[Edited on 2/3/10 by FFTS]
McLannahan - 2/3/10 at 10:58 AM
I think you've made it too complex.
You could always do a poll and let people pick their preference. It'll work out the % of options selected for you. Include an "other by
brand" to cover all options?
blakep82 - 2/3/10 at 11:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by FFTS
Ahh well. It was probably too much to expect to get some serious answers
erm...
quote:
Originally posted by FFTS
BEC!!!
from the xe vs zetec vs duratec thread
FFTS - 2/3/10 at 11:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
quote:
Originally posted by FFTS
Ahh well. It was probably too much to expect to get some serious answers
erm...
quote:
Originally posted by FFTS
BEC!!!
from the xe vs zetec vs duratec thread
Hahahhaha.. you again, I hate you Blake Fair does as they say. And fancy doing that after nearly causing me to get booted off for the Lady Gaga
stuff
blakep82 - 2/3/10 at 11:08 AM
lol that was almost like on the busses except it was blakey said i hate you butler!
oi, i never got you in troble! you did that yourself! ha ha
smart51 - 2/3/10 at 11:14 AM
The original question is too hard to answer, especially as bike engines change so much throughout their life. The 2008 R1 engine is not at all like a
1998 engine.
the 98 engine was carbed. It made about 140 actual BHP and revved to about 12,000. The gears were relatively widely spaced. It had a big jump in
torque at about 5000 RPM that would catch out some bikers, so I hear.
the 2000 engine was also carbed but the delivery was smoother and it had a little more top end power.
the 2002 engine was fuel injected. The torque curve was again improved and it actually delivered the 150 BHP claimed for the 1998 engine.
The 2004 engine was quite different. It revved to 14,000 and made about 175 BHP, from memory. All of the extra was in the 12,000 - 14000 range.
Dyno plots on the net suggest is made less torque at low revs. 1st gear was taller and the primary reduction was different, meaning you either had to
have a 3.14 diff or it would do 1,000,000 rpm at 70 in top.
the 2008 engine had variable length trumpets or some such and made 180 BHP. Quite a different beast to the 98 lump. One can be ideal for your
application where the other is just not right at all. Its hard, then, to lump them all together and that's just from one bike.
twybrow - 2/3/10 at 11:17 AM
ZX14 - 2%
Busa - 8%
ZX12 - 5%
Blackbird - 5%
ZX10 - 8%
R1 - 10%
Triumph Daytona (my engine!) - 5% (just for the sound!)
ZX9 - 2%
Fireblade
All guesstimates based upon experience, pub chat and some intuition!
Edited to say - 100% agreement with smart51 - this is all rather academic, as you are ignoring model year differences, which are considerable. also,
you need to think about sump issues, engine height, carbs vs EFI, off the shelf parts availability (zorst, cradle etc), reliability, upgrades
etc...
[Edited on 2/3/10 by twybrow]
FFTS - 2/3/10 at 11:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
ZX14 - 2%
Busa - 8%
ZX12 - 5%
Blackbird - 5%
ZX10 - 8%
R1 - 10%
Triumph Daytona (my engine!) - 5% (just for the sound!)
ZX9 - 2%
Fireblade
All guesstimates based upon experience, pub chat and some intuition!
Edited to say - 100% agreement with smart51 - this is all rather academic, as you are ignoring model year differences, which are considerable. also,
you need to think about sump issues, engine height, carbs vs EFI, off the shelf parts availability (zorst, cradle etc), reliability, upgrades
etc...
[Edited on 2/3/10 by twybrow]
Well thanks for the last two answers and to twybrow for his attempt. I understand there can be big differences between years of the same engine model.
I guess I'm just trying to find the answer to for instance.. would the power step up from one engine say ZX9R to ZX10R be worth doing or would it
be a case of stepping up bigger.
Have patience chaps! I ask these questions as I DON@T have knowledge of bike engines and am trying to learn a few things from you Gurus
TimC - 2/3/10 at 11:55 AM
Sorry Pal, but I think you're asking the wrong question, or are trying to make a complex issue really simple, which it sadly is not. Several
reasons:
- You're ignoring weight. For example a CBR1000F makes more power than a 893 Fireblade but weighs 19kgs more, so is it
'better'?>
- You're ignoring installation issues e.g, the CBR1000RR is a stonking motor but is VERY tall and therefore requires a huge bonnet bulge to
fit.
- You're ignoring how the engine may act differently in a car to in a bike, e.g, on paper (or in a bike) a 2006 R1 makes more power than a 2003
R1 but because you cannot replicate the clever air-intake ram air performance will just about be the same.
- It's difficult to rank them with no no financial value judgement. Sure, a 1500cc Powertec Busa would be nice, but is it worth 8 ZX-10Rs?
- You're asking us to condense several years worth of casual research into the simplest table - sorry; no-can-do.
franky - 2/3/10 at 11:55 AM
a 98 r1 would be the best bike engine for a car as it made the most torque, and still does over the new ones. It hasn't got a step in torque is
so silky smooth, what caught bikers out was the crap rubber at the time, the engine was ahead of road tyres in 1998.
A zx10 makes about 30bhp more at the wheel on a bike than the 98 r1 lump. Plenty of them about too and the cost isn't too bad. Infact a new
zx10 lump from 2006+ makes the same bhp as a busa/zx12r engine
a zx9 E will be 98% as good as the r1 lump but cheaper to buy.
Just buy what you can afford to replace when it goes pop.
evo.rocks - 2/3/10 at 12:12 PM
i have the zx9 e engine in my engine and its quicker than my mates fireblade and quicker than the r1 engine bikes.
I can even keep up with busa and zx12 powered bikes from 0-100, but say 40-100 - i obviously get splatted - not by much though they just pull away
slowly
TimC - 2/3/10 at 12:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by evo.rocks
i have the zx9 e engine in my engine and its quicker than my mates fireblade and quicker than the r1 engine bikes.
I can even keep up with busa and zx12 powered bikes from 0-100, but say 40-100 - i obviously get splatted - not by much though they just pull away
slowly
Don't be so ridiculous!
smart51 - 2/3/10 at 01:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by franky
... 98 r1 ... It hasn't got a step in torque is so silky smooth
Mine wasn't. It suddenly came on at 5000 RPM. It was noticeable in all the lower gears. I designed an airbox that was resonant at 4800 RPM
which helped the engine breath easier just before the torque jump. It smoothed out delivery nicely. Even so, the output built up from about 4000 to
about 5000, from where it pulled really well.
skippad - 2/3/10 at 01:07 PM
My 1400zzr Mk..
pulls away from everything!
nitram38 - 2/3/10 at 01:18 PM
Everyone wants a busa, but at 2.5K for a decent one plus another 1.5K for a dry sump, it is just too expensive for most people.
The R1 can be picked up from around 1-2K and a baffle plate from me only costs £29.95.
The R1 is popular because of power and budget
bassett - 2/3/10 at 01:19 PM
I can only comment on my R1 - 100% 
In the future i would like to upgrade the engine but only if it meets the criteria of more reliable, cost effective and noticeable gains, better
cruiser etc so maybe a ZX12/14 or older Busa but at the same time im not sure what similar engines other manufacturers do like Yamaha and Honda.
To really help you though try and get a past copy of one of the kit car mags(total kit car magazine?) with i think the Andy Bates run through of BEC
engines as i doubt most of us have seen it all or lived with more than 1 or 2 bec's.
[Edited on 2/3/10 by bassett]
TimC - 2/3/10 at 01:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bassett
I can only comment on my R1 - 100%
In the future i would like to upgrade the engine but only if it meets the criteria of more reliable, cost effective and noticeable gains, better
cruiser etc so maybe a ZX12/14 or older Busa but at the same time im not sure what similar engines other manufacturers do like Yamaha and Honda.
To really help you though try and get a past copy of one of the kit car mags(total kit car magazine?) with i think the Andy Bates run through of BEC
engines as i doubt most of us have seen it all or lived with more than 1 or 2 bec's.
[Edited on 2/3/10 by bassett]
Related thread here
franky - 2/3/10 at 01:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by franky
... 98 r1 ... It hasn't got a step in torque is so silky smooth
Mine wasn't. It suddenly came on at 5000 RPM. It was noticeable in all the lower gears. I designed an airbox that was resonant at 4800 RPM
which helped the engine breath easier just before the torque jump. It smoothed out delivery nicely. Even so, the output built up from about 4000 to
about 5000, from where it pulled really well.
The problem you had is that the r1 is designed to run with a EUXP valve in the exhaust system. When you fit a full system you have to re-jet on a
rolling road to smooth the lump out.
evo.rocks - 2/3/10 at 01:45 PM
whats so ridiculous?? it has beat an r1 everytime, it might have something to do with the rebore and the cylinder sizes are slightly bigger and the
engine is lighter
cd.thomson - 2/3/10 at 01:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by evo.rocks
whats so ridiculous?? it has beat an r1 everytime, it might have something to do with the rebore and the cylinder sizes are slightly bigger and the
engine is lighter
lol, yes the cylinders being slightly bigger and the engine slightly lighter must be what gives you the edge.
evo.rocks - 2/3/10 at 02:00 PM
oh well. never the less - i still want a busa engine!! with a turbo!!!!!!!
fesycresy - 2/3/10 at 03:16 PM
You all know jack sh1t.........
Two turbo's on this baby and you can all kiss my fat ar$e
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progers - 2/3/10 at 03:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by evo.rocks
whats so ridiculous?? it has beat an r1 everytime, it might have something to do with the rebore and the cylinder sizes are slightly bigger and the
engine is lighter
Its ridiculous because it has been proven many times over that a ZX9 engine is not competitive against R1's (and even blades) in various forms of
motorsport including sidecars and bike engined race series.
If your Zx9 beats an R1 its because the R1 is badly setup/driven/poor gearing etc or you have a tuned engine which is not comparing like with like.
In general there are so many poor, misinformed bits of information in this thread its about as useful to the original poster as a chocolate
fireguard!
Sigh....
FFTS - 2/3/10 at 06:36 PM
What's a chocolate fire guard for??? If they are any use can someone get me one cheap
Well what a lively little thread this is turning into.
OK lets try another question!
If I were going to upgrade my engine (ZX9R C1) or change the car to another Bec with a more powerful engine (standard) What would be the next
worthwhile step up between limited budget and the step being worth the upgrade in noticeable performance?
For instance swapping it for a Blade then no. For an R1 4XV? 5VY?
Ebay Linky
Not about too do it yet but gathering knowledge for when I have some more cash and the urge for more grunt.
[Edited on 2/3/10 by FFTS]
franky - 2/3/10 at 06:47 PM
If you've already got a zx9 lump then an early r1 wouldn't be worth the cost/hassle of the change. Go for a zx10r as that's got 30bhp
over your motor and an r1.
FFTS - 2/3/10 at 06:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by franky
If you've already got a zx9 lump then an early r1 wouldn't be worth the cost/hassle of the change. Go for a zx10r as that's got 30bhp
over your motor and an r1.
Now that's constructive, thanks
Any more opinions? How much any suggestions should cost to buy the standard engine and bits of a given age etc.
twybrow - 2/3/10 at 07:01 PM
If your lump uses carbs, then I would be looking at a DIY turbo upgrade. Those engines are cheap enough you can swap it for another if the first goes
pop. Carbs are much easier to DIY turbo than EFI due to the limited electronics needed.
If you want to stick with N/A, then a ZX10/ZX12 would be a good choice, as you may be able to adapt some of your existing parts (eg zorst).
smart51 - 2/3/10 at 07:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by franky
If you've already got a zx9 lump then an early r1 wouldn't be worth the cost/hassle of the change. Go for a zx10r as that's got 30bhp
over your motor and an r1.
Personally, I wouldn't say that 30 BHP was enough. 20% more is a bit Ho-Hum in my opinion. I'd stick with what I had until it went pop and
save up for a bigger motor. Busas or ZX14s are the current moteur de jour so are pricey but myself, I'd be disappointed with any smaller
increase in power.
TimC - 2/3/10 at 07:40 PM
This is my last post on this thread because it's a total shocker but:
quote:
Originally posted by franky
If you've already got a zx9 lump then an early r1 wouldn't be worth the cost/hassle of the change. Go for a zx10r as that's got 30bhp
over your motor and an r1.
- Assuming the OP uses a Sierra or Escort diff/axle (it's a ST chassis after all), if he wants to use a ZX-10R there is a very strong chance
he'll at least need to fork-out for a 3.14 Sierra diff and if he's live-axle he's f**cked.
- Secondly, there is absolutely no chance that a ZX-10R will deliver 30bhp more in a car than even a well set-up 5JJ. I promise you - and I'm
using a 10R
bassett - 2/3/10 at 07:41 PM
Tim C - wow was that over 2 years ago! I still think it was a good article for an all round view and to understand what is available.
ReMan - 2/3/10 at 09:16 PM
I'm still confused about the original question.
Why dont you just ask for a top 10 bang per buck without the %ages
maximill666 - 2/3/10 at 09:34 PM
Turbocharge what you already have, you know it makes sense
FFTS - 2/3/10 at 09:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
I'm still confused about the original question.
Why dont you just ask for a top 10 bang per buck without the %ages
Because I was interested in trying to get an idea HOW MUCH better one was over the last. If one engine was at number 6 was would it be worth upgrading
to 5 or would a jump to number 4/3... simple really if you think about it. Quote from my original thread "so I can get an idea of how much
of a step up from one to the next is try to put a % better than the last "
Hope this helps you with your confusion!
[Edited on 2/3/10 by FFTS]
FFTS - 2/3/10 at 09:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by maximill666
Turbocharge what you already have, you know it makes sense
I've seen yours for the first time on the other thread and have to say that its just engineering porn and I love it.. Well done you!!
bassett - 2/3/10 at 11:12 PM
what you need is for users to rate their engines out of 10 on the main factors by cost, original power, mods required, ease of installation,
reliability and how happy you are with it then i think you could compare them as ive only ever been in mine and im sure the majority are in the same
boat.
imp paul - 3/3/10 at 09:50 AM
i will just stick with the zx12r
[Edited on 3/3/10 by imp paul][img]http://locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/a1104715-small [800x600].jpg[/img]
Hellfire - 3/3/10 at 07:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by FFTS
If I were going to upgrade my engine (ZX9R C1) or change the car to another Bec with a more powerful engine (standard) What would be the next
worthwhile step up between limited budget and the step being worth the upgrade in noticeable performance?
Personally, I wouldn't even bother considering it unless your engine (or gearbox) goes bang and needs replacing. I'd spend the money making
your car lighter and getting it set up properly. The ST chassis and ZX9R is a great combination if you get it to work correctly.
Phil
FFTS - 3/3/10 at 07:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
quote:
Originally posted by FFTS
If I were going to upgrade my engine (ZX9R C1) or change the car to another Bec with a more powerful engine (standard) What would be the next
worthwhile step up between limited budget and the step being worth the upgrade in noticeable performance?
Personally, I wouldn't even bother considering it unless your engine (or gearbox) goes bang and needs replacing. I'd spend the money making
your car lighter and getting it set up properly. The ST chassis and ZX9R is a great combination if you get it to work correctly.
Phil
Thanks for that and I value your oppinion. Don't know if you seem very in the know or I simply like your user name .
Over the last few days I've noticed some clutch slip in 5th/6th when driving hard and comes in at around 9-10'000 rpm.
So Mr HELLFIRE??????
Hellfire - 4/3/10 at 10:24 PM
Have your clutch springs been uprated?
Phil
Steve Hignett - 4/3/10 at 11:19 PM
Apart from Hellfire's blunt point about not fixing it 'til it's broke, and then the people that are trying their best to shoot down the
bullshit that some people on this forum insist on posting;- I believe that the only decent examples of suggestions for you (O.P.) are the two re the
turbocharging of your existing engine...
FFTS - 4/3/10 at 11:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
Have your clutch springs been uprated?
Phil
Yep... Barnett..
and thanks Steve.. so what turbo and what kind of costs involved?
Steve Hignett - 5/3/10 at 06:56 AM
Have a look at this; you should recognise the poster...
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=61089
and then you can read this:
http://www.turbo-bike.net/
And here:
http://www.bike-turbo.com/forum/garage.html
And then you can start posting specific questions on here and the above forum, you should really only get responses by half decent people as you are
asking more specific questions of people that should have prev knowledge...
Hellfire - 5/3/10 at 06:00 PM
Just a word of warning..... if you turbocharge your engine you will compromise it's reliability. To what extent, depends how well
it's done. If tinkering with the engine is something you don't mind doing for the increase in performance, then go for it.
Phil
Wadders - 6/3/10 at 12:40 AM
ZX9's rock the world, just lose the lard to keep up with the bigger boys.
Al
:{THC}:YosamiteSam - 6/3/10 at 12:53 PM
i would of thought that the best way forward would be (if money were an issue) save weight and set up better. theres good weight to the saying
'all the gear and no idea' not meaning anyone tho - but rather joe bloggs with no idea could buy a bugatti veyron or summink - not know how
to drive it, but a chap who knows his stuff and can get the best out of what he has can still do wonders and really fly.
if you can afford it busa everytime.. strong bottom end on them if its looked after. better to buy the car with the engine in due to resale costs now
being very very low.
i bought mine for 12k - with 8000 on the clock - new - 29k built by westfield.. look around it can be cheaper than you think with weather being bad
and recessions etc people sell up
dean100yz - 6/3/10 at 07:12 PM
turbo it! If i were smart enough i'd do it. Real small turbo and low boost so i didn't stress lump or box too much and little lag
FFTS - 7/3/10 at 04:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dean100yz
turbo it! If i were smart enough i'd do it. Real small turbo and low boost so i didn't stress lump or box too much and little lag
What suggestions for a Turbo? off what as a donor (Metro turbo??) and what other parts would be needed?
welderman - 7/3/10 at 05:57 PM
TD04-16T
thats what my blade turbo is running, approx 200 bhp, charge cooled and dyson racing gear box beastie
