Never having owned a bike, the Indy's my first experience of a bike engine/transmission. That said, I'd welcome comments/advice on the following:

1. Gear changes sound like a 'bag of spanners' being rattled around. Either up or down, (particularly clutched shifts).

2. The above seems to come about because there feels a lot of 'play' in the system. eg coming up the steep hill to the house is a 600metre twisty run. Going at it quickly in first, (or second) is fine, but if I try and 'feather' my way up, there's no earthly way to drive smoothly. It's either full-on or nowt.

3. The gear selection can be a little bit 'hit or miss', particularly 2nd to first and first to neutral. I've heeded Baz's advice at MK and come down the box approaching junctions. Not to do so is embarrassing when I stall it three times, with traffic backing up behind me.

4. The Flatshifter upshifts feel smoother with more revs on. (Better than any manual shifts I make).

It's very early days yet, only had the car 10 days and done 120 miles, however, assurances would be most welcome. (Along with cautions too).

Regards, Bob.

You get used to the harsh boxes, saying that it is possible to drive them smoothly practise is the key.

Maybe it needs a cush drive propshaft. I know my mk supplied prop is just a normal prop that has been cut down an a uj welded on the end

I'm afraid that's one of the downsides to BEC ownership Bob... anything other than full-on time-warp kung-fu attack-mode is a bit of a pain in the arse!

I had similar issues with my box but I spoke to the people that made the prop and they said if the prop was filled with tightly rolled up card board then it would dramatically reduce the metallic noises iwadgetting every time I change gear !!

Like scootz said anything other than flat out is a big hard work it does get better with practice though !!

Hi Bob
a few things might help, firstly you really do need to be using a resilient tube propshaft, if the prop is a solid steel affair the lack of a cush drive will lead to premature gearbox and diff wear/ failure. The slack you refer to is typical with a dog box, basically the land that the dogs locate in are larger than the dog to give a bigger target for the dog to aim at, otherwise finding a gear would be almost impossible.
Second thing - fit a simple overide switch to the flatshifter and run with bypassed for town work, the shifter will perform nicely when being driven hard but round town when the car is not "taut" they can be a hindrance. Whenever we install them we fit a 3 way stainless toggle switch - on/off/on. In on position one the power to the coils is fed through flatshifter, in off position the vehicle is immobilised and in on position two the power is fed direct to coils bypassing the flatshifter.
I always switch the flatshifter out round town as the combination of a relatively slow change, clutch and ignition cut makes the car real lumpy, then when blasting on main highways or race tracks simply switch it back in.
Hope that helps
best regards
Andy

Just to add, when I am driving on the road up to junctions or coming to a stop, with all my bike engined cars Ive had, I roll up in 2nd gear, then select 1st gear when I stop, so you could give that method a try.
The other thing, sometimes when Ive drove other peoples bike engined cars including the Aries Ive just bought, there throttle's have been very light, so when your trying to drive steady as you say the 600 metres up to your house, the throttle is either off or on, fitting a extra throttle spring can help give you better control on this.
Also I take it you are doing clutchless up shifts and just using the clutch on down shifts?, might sound a silly question, but alot of people who have never had bikes just don't know this or find it difficult to do.

[Edited on 19/05/04 by PAUL FISHER]

all i can say is welcome to the world of bec ownership and sequential boxes.

Absolutely *NOTHING* at all wrong or unusual with anything you've observed, said or are doing. All is well.
If anything consitutes a 'problem' for you going forward, you need to fit a car engined powerplant, the ultimate 'fix' being a nice new Espace...

Don't worry, get used to the noise, revs and the sheer joy of a bike engined car. Undercutting the gear set will help engagement, something to do next time you've got the engine in bits. Flatshifters/quickshifters/whatever are great when the revs are high, not so good otherwise (some like the Translogic can be programmed not to be active below certain revs in certain gears). Finding neutral will never be easy.....

By the way, if you've got a reverse gearbox in the prop line then getting rid of that will help with some of the noise, backlash and clunk. Removing it now will just pre-empt the removal of it later, or when it decides to do the act for you. I am **assuming** here that you've got a prop and not a chain (MK Indy/Midi).

Finally............BOOK A TRACK DAY...... you'll love the car a lot after that. That Espace won't get a second thought.

And very finally... try a bike too... a (now) cheap GSXR1000 K1-4 will teach you lot. The rest of the planet will appear to be stationary!

quote:

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Originally posted by scootz
I'm afraid that's one of the downsides to BEC ownership Bob... anything other than full-on time-warp kung-fu attack-mode is a bit of a pain in the arse!

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quote:

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Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Absolutely *NOTHING* at all wrong or unusual with anything you've observed, said or are doing. All is well.
If anything consitutes a 'problem' for you going forward, you need to fit a car engined powerplant, the ultimate 'fix' being a nice new Espace...

Don't worry, get used to the noise, revs and the sheer joy of a bike engined car. Undercutting the gear set will help engagement, something to do next time you've got the engine in bits. Flatshifters/quickshifters/whatever are great when the revs are high, not so good otherwise (some like the Translogic can be programmed not to be active below certain revs in certain gears). Finding neutral will never be easy.....

By the way, if you've got a reverse gearbox in the prop line then getting rid of that will help with some of the noise, backlash and clunk. Removing it now will just pre-empt the removal of it later, or when it decides to do the act for you. I am **assuming** here that you've got a prop and not a chain (MK Indy/Midi).

Finally............BOOK A TRACK DAY...... you'll love the car a lot after that. That Espace won't get a second thought.

And very finally... try a bike too... a (now) cheap GSXR1000 K1-4 will teach you lot. The rest of the planet will appear to be stationary!

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quote:

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Originally posted by bobinspain

quote:

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Originally posted by scootz
I'm afraid that's one of the downsides to BEC ownership Bob... anything other than full-on time-warp kung-fu attack-mode is a bit of a pain in the arse!

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To steal from Butch Cassidy, "Don't sugar coat it Kid, give it to her straight."..../quote]

But when you ARE in full-on time-warp kung-fu attack-mode...

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mad-butcher - 19/2/12 at 04:28 PM

Thank fcuk I'm not the only old arse (61) blasting around in one of these things, took up scuba diving at 59 now thats an expensive pastime.

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Chippy - 19/2/12 at 04:39 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by bobinspain
At 63 years of age a bike is a no-no. (Just ask SWMBO).
Bob.

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Oh Dear! Oh dear! at 72 I still enjoy my Harley, although the mileage done is a lot less than it used to be, (suffer from numb bum syndrom), after about 100 miles. Cheers Ray

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bobinspain - 19/2/12 at 05:19 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by Chippy

quote:

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Originally posted by bobinspain
At 63 years of age a bike is a no-no. (Just ask SWMBO).
Bob.

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Oh Dear! Oh dear! at 72 I still enjoy my Harley, although the mileage done is a lot less than it used to be, (suffer from numb bum syndrom), after about 100 miles. Cheers Ray

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Ray,
The reason I bought a BEC is thanks to UK bureacracy. Their jobsworth attitude prevented me from coming back to UK to do my bike licence in my late 50s, (5 yrs ago).
It was my intention to do the Harley course, and then buy a bike after it to drive it home here to sunny Spain. Nope!
Because I'm resident in Spain (and despite having held a UK DVLA licence for 35 yrs) I MUST do a bike test here in Spain. Imagine the language difficulties?
DVLA were unmoved by common sense arguments, like what if I applied for a UK provisional? Or, "do you realise I'm trying to be as safe a bike rider as possible, and you're preventing me from doing so"? All fell on deaf ears and they effectively told me to poke off.
In the end, I bought a quad, but that didn't scratch my itch. Toyed with the idea of a Can-Am, but that's neither fish nor fowl, hence the 'pigeon catcher.'
Power to your elbow my man.

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T66 - 19/2/12 at 05:47 PM

Depressed with all this talk of Spain



Real tomatoes, real peppers, fantastic wine, everything still shuts on a Sunday.

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bobinspain - 19/2/12 at 07:05 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by T66
Depressed with all this talk of Spain



Real tomatoes, real peppers, fantastic wine, everything still shuts on a Sunday.

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Check out Alcossebre beach hotel weather on the website.
I did my apprenticeship in Lancashire, so don't feel guilty enjoying this: 16c today, (but it was still nippy on the quad----on the way to the pub, of course). Didn't feel much on the way back.

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motorcycle_mayhem - 19/2/12 at 07:36 PM

I only urged the bike thing to get you acquainted with noise, revs, gearchanges and all that goes with it.
Stupidly quick bikes are now available 2nd hand for the price of a (far more) 2nd hand shopping trolley. Nothing will keep up with a bike. Once you get on one, the whole world out there is just stationary, everything is in the way. It really is quite a buzz.... lovely sunny day here in Link Onshire today, just too many speed cameras to really enjoy it. Too much enforcement, but also far too many Sunday drivers out to kill, cripple, putting you in the grave or wheelchair.

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bobinspain - 19/2/12 at 08:12 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
I only urged the bike thing to get you acquainted with noise, revs, gearchanges and all that goes with it.
Stupidly quick bikes are now available 2nd hand for the price of a (far more) 2nd hand shopping trolley. Nothing will keep up with a bike. Once you get on one, the whole world out there is just stationary, everything is in the way. It really is quite a buzz.... lovely sunny day here in Link Onshire today, just too many speed cameras to really enjoy it. Too much enforcement, but also far too many Sunday drivers out to kill, cripple, putting you in the grave or wheelchair.

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Again m_m, good post.
I was at RAFC Cranwel in 1980 and planted my Morgan +8 into the soil en route from a flat place to another flat place. Occupational hazard I guess?
I'm enjoying my first acquaintance with my new toy.
Previous toys I've owned like the Lotus Esprit, Elise and 340-R were in a different league in terms of acceleration. Slouches compared to the MK.
As you say, I need to be taught how to drive it. Danny at MK offered to show me, but flights and other considerations meant I couldn't get back to UK before taking delivery of the car.
I'm being rather careful so far, as I realise the car could bite. Even 8,000 rpm seems surreal, and the engines not quite on the cam.

[Edited on 20/2/12 by bobinspain]

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bobinspain - 20/2/12 at 09:10 AM

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andy B
Hi Bob
a few things might help, firstly you really do need to be using a resilient tube propshaft, if the prop is a solid steel affair the lack of a cush drive will lead to premature gearbox and diff wear/ failure. The slack you refer to is typical with a dog box, basically the land that the dogs locate in are larger than the dog to give a bigger target for the dog to aim at, otherwise finding a gear would be almost impossible.
Second thing - fit a simple overide switch to the flatshifter and run with bypassed for town work, the shifter will perform nicely when being driven hard but round town when the car is not "taut" they can be a hindrance. Whenever we install them we fit a 3 way stainless toggle switch - on/off/on. In on position one the power to the coils is fed through flatshifter, in off position the vehicle is immobilised and in on position two the power is fed direct to coils bypassing the flatshifter.
I always switch the flatshifter out round town as the combination of a relatively slow change, clutch and ignition cut makes the car real lumpy, then when blasting on main highways or race tracks simply switch it back in.
Hope that helps
best regards
Andy

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Gonna try the Flatshifter-bypass Andy.
Thanks for the input.
u2u sent.

Regards, Bob.

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motorcycle_mayhem - 20/2/12 at 10:05 AM

8,000 RPM is really only when things get going....
Most circuit noise tests at 3/4 throttle static will be in this territory.

The most 'fun' (and suprisingly competitive) powerplant I tried was the race-built 750cc.... simply nothing under 11K...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQG-3VSMUUI&list=UUyFWzcAohQlXMs-nutECxEw&index=14&feature=plpp_video

Drive this and the Hayabusa sounds and feels quite car-like.

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bobinspain - 20/2/12 at 02:02 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
8,000 RPM is really only when things get going....
Most circuit noise tests at 3/4 throttle static will be in this territory.

The most 'fun' (and suprisingly competitive) powerplant I tried was the race-built 750cc.... simply nothing under 11K...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQG-3VSMUUI&list=UUyFWzcAohQlXMs-nutECxEw&index=14&feature=plpp_video

Drive this and the Hayabusa sounds and feels quite car-like.

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The triple downshift one minute in is slick. I presume that's clutched, or have you a Flatshifter Expert fitted?

MK said that although the F/s Pro says clutchless downshifts are possible, they are not recommended.

(This is like learning to drive by correspondence course).

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SJL - 20/2/12 at 10:21 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
8,000 RPM is really only when things get going....
Most circuit noise tests at 3/4 throttle static will be in this territory.

The most 'fun' (and suprisingly competitive) powerplant I tried was the race-built 750cc.... simply nothing under 11K...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQG-3VSMUUI&list=UUyFWzcAohQlXMs-nutECxEw&index=14&feature=plpp_video

Drive this and the Hayabusa sounds and feels quite car-like.

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Great video you were certainly on it

Bob double check you have a TRT prop fitted to the rear section that will make a huge difference to the gear change quality if its not got one. My custom prop didn't have one and it was like being kicked in the small of your back. It got corrected very quickly.

I have a Flatshifter on mine and can drive it normally without it cutting the coils it could be the strain sensor at the gearbox end is setup too sensitively. You can test it stationary with the ignition on by listening to the beeps.

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bobinspain - 21/2/12 at 08:41 AM

SJL

u2u sent.

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bobinspain - 24/2/12 at 09:10 AM

Just for info and a sitrep:

Andy (AB) has been fabulously helpful, (to the extent of supplying me with a F/S bypass, 'on the house' to give it a try). Wow!

SJL (Steve) is a mine of information and like Andy, has been giving of his time to share it with me. The fact that Westfield supply a torque-resilient-tube prop as standard with a BEC, (allied to AB's recommendation to fit one) speaks volumes.

I'm going to fit the no-cost (F/S bypass) option and give it a whirl. If unsuccessful, then I'll further explore the TRT prop route. (cost and getting one out here).

One way or the other, I'll give it my best shot to cure the 'BEC shunting' and be able to drive around our port area (speed restriction 40kph) without the transmission aurally warning pedestrians of my impending arrival. Anyway, I don't know the Spanish for, "It's a BEC. They all do that!"



Addendum. Just spoken to Graham and John at Flatshifter. Both ultra-helpful and friendly. They concur with Andy, that for in-town use, bypassing the F/S makes sense.

[Edited on 24/2/12 by bobinspain]

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