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50mpg+ sub £3.5k tin top - Which one?
MK9R - 4/2/10 at 08:32 AM

I've currently got a 2007 mondeo estate on LPG, but I have moved work so not next door to one of the cheapest LPG resellers in the country and the 2 LPG stations on my journey to work have shut down at the moment, plus they were expensive anyway. The missus now has the main family car (Disco) so i'm looking at getting a high MPG diesel which is smaller and cheaper. I expect to get around £6k for the mondeo, and don't really want to spend more than £3500 on the replacement. I do 500+ miles a week so don't really want to get a car with much over 100k on it. The car needs to be able to take me to work and back, but also me and 3 kids in it for when the missus is out in the Disco (or when it breaks down).

My journey to works consists of 10 miles of fast twisty B road where i have to do lots of quick over taking, 5 miles of town roads, 35 miles of motorway/dual carriage way. As i do this route twice a day its got to be good at cruising but also handle well.

Oh, I want it to look respectable aswell and the missus said no to a red car!!

Been looking at Golf GT TDI (can scrape a 150 if i'm lucky, if not 130's would be fine), Seat leon TDI (but only like the cupra), Bora 130, Polo 1.9 TDI sport, Ibiza 1.9 tdi, fabia VRS (although worried its too small)

Any suggestions or views?

imp paul - 4/2/10 at 08:38 AM

fabia vrs very good car i have 2 mates with vrs and are very happy with them

55ant - 4/2/10 at 08:40 AM

i think the golf tdi fits most of your bill, i dont know what mpg it does, but they are great fun, and quick, plenty of room in it and reliable as anything,

MK9R - 4/2/10 at 08:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by 55ant
i think the golf tdi fits most of your bill, i dont know what mpg it does, but they are great fun, and quick, plenty of room in it and reliable as anything,


Thats the car i'm leaning towards, they will do over 50mpg, my mates leon with the 130bhp engine does a real 55mpg on his journey to work, but reckons he can get 60mpg if he drives like a granny,

Also thought about a bmw 320d

Irony - 4/2/10 at 08:56 AM

I have a Golf MK 4 GT TDI 150 that has 114K on the clock and general use I get a smidge under 50 MPG. It does go like stink for what I think is quite a heavy car. Generally I have been very happy with it. A couple of problems (window regulators) and a gearbox problem. The rumour is that they chew through front tires but I should see 20k out of mine. Clutches will go between 80k - 100k and they are exspensive to change.

I also had a Seat Leon 130 Tdi and that was a great car. Seemed quicker than the golf but I think the Leons have a slightly more aggressive interior feel.

I would recommend a Golf or a Leon.

MK9R - 4/2/10 at 09:00 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Irony
I have a Golf MK 4 GT TDI 150 that has 114K on the clock and general use I get a smidge under 50 MPG. It does go like stink for what I think is quite a heavy car. Generally I have been very happy with it. A couple of problems (window regulators) and a gearbox problem. The rumour is that they chew through front tires but I should see 20k out of mine. Clutches will go between 80k - 100k and they are exspensive to change.

I also had a Seat Leon 130 Tdi and that was a great car. Seemed quicker than the golf but I think the Leons have a slightly more aggressive interior feel.

I would recommend a Golf or a Leon.


Did the leon get better mpg than the golf?? Just wondered if the 130bhp is more economical? I'd been told the 150 actually returns more mpg, but no proof of that

smart51 - 4/2/10 at 09:30 AM

I drive a Peugeot 107 petrol from which I get 50 - 55 MPG, compared to the official figure of 61. The diesel is slower but probably offers more. It isn't a fast car but the handling and grip are good for a tiddler and it is excellent in snow.

My wife has a C3 diesel which is bigger inside and has more boot space. She gets 55 - 65 MPG from hers compared to the official figure of 67. We have the base 70 BHP 1.4 8V version. There is a 1.4 16V and a 1.6 as well, though they were very expensive new as you could only pay the premium for the bigger diesel on top of the premium for the diesel on top of the premium for the highest level of trim. I guess they didn't want to sell many of them.

thunderace - 4/2/10 at 10:33 AM

corsa sxi 1.7 16v tdi 100bhp i had one from new and done 80,000 trouble free miles in it before selling it 5 years later it got around 60mpg.parts are very cheep for the corsa.

richardR1 - 4/2/10 at 10:56 AM

Another vote for the Leon. FR150 version would satisfy your requirements and give Golf quality for less money. Girlfriend has the Mk2 Leon FR170 diesel and it is a fantastic car.

pewe - 4/2/10 at 11:12 AM

So far no mention of Fiesta TDCi.
Cracking chassis plus lots of grunt and pretty cheap to buy/run.
Cheers, Pewe.

Irony - 4/2/10 at 11:58 AM

I can't really comment on the fuel consumption of the Diesel PD 130 over the 150 as sadly my Leon died a death do to flooding we had around where I live not long after I had it.

I VW Pump Duese engines are quite old now and I get the impression that the more modern diesels are slightly better on fuel. A workmate of mine has a BMW three series, about a 2001 I think, it has a 150bhp diesel and it gets 65mpg.

If I could go back I might get a diesel Leon over the Golf. Just for the slightly more aggressive look/feel and the fact that every man and dog has a Golf.

[Edited on 4/2/10 by Irony]

hobbsy - 4/2/10 at 02:22 PM

My old 320D 52 plate 150bhp did nowhere near 65mpg even with a lot of motorway driving. Unless you never go over 60mph I can't see how he did that.

OR the onboard computer says he's getting that and he's never bothered to check it when filling up.

My onboard computer overread the mpg by about 10% so it would say 50 to 55 mpg when I was getting realworld 45 to 50mpg.

Which still isn't bad.

Generally with the 320d you need to check what year it is as there was an 18mth or so run of production just after the facelift where they fitted a substandard turbo. I know I blew mine up (and replaced it on the drive with the revised version).

They also can split their intake manifolds leading to the swirl flaps going into the engine. This can mostly be avoided by bypassing the EGR and fitting the later type of turbo breather filter.

I've kissed goodbye to diesel ~50mpg for a couple of years and gone for an M5. So I'm going to stop this post there before I remember what decent fuel economy is like.

Burn it while you can and have fun

The BMW will probably handle the best and has the most grip off the line (unless its snowy) and of course it won't torque steer

Also the BMW has a timing chain rather than a belt. Don't get me wrong I think the VAG 1.9 and 2.0 PD TD's are great engines but if you do a belt replacement (including all the idlers) with proper gear it isn't cheap.

[Edited on 4/2/10 by hobbsy]

coozer - 4/2/10 at 02:31 PM

Right, I have a 51 plate Rover 45 2L TDi that costs £120 a year to tax and does 55mpg.

It cost me £950 2 years ago and I'm sure you can find one cheaper now.

Peeps ask me why I drive round in old bangers and I point to the above facts. Its not a banger, its got no rust, is in very good condition and as far as mileage goes good for 200K.

The only car I've looked at that beats this is a new Note, only problem is they cost 7~8K!

hobbsy - 4/2/10 at 02:37 PM

I believe that's pretty much the same engine as in the 320D just with less horsepower.

You're still looking 4 to 5k for a 320d of that vintage (unless mega miles) whereas your Rover looks like a comparative bargain at <£950. A lot more to do with image than anything else to explain the price difference

Really depends what you want - I wouldn't call a 51 plate car a banger either.

MK9R - 4/2/10 at 02:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by hobbsy
My old 320D 52 plate 150bhp did nowhere near 65mpg even with a lot of motorway driving. Unless you never go over 60mph I can't see how he did that.

OR the onboard computer says he's getting that and he's never bothered to check it when filling up.

My onboard computer overread the mpg by about 10% so it would say 50 to 55 mpg when I was getting realworld 45 to 50mpg.

Which still isn't bad.

Generally with the 320d you need to check what year it is as there was an 18mth or so run of production just after the facelift where they fitted a substandard turbo. I know I blew mine up (and replaced it on the drive with the revised version).

They also can split their intake manifolds leading to the swirl flaps going into the engine. This can mostly be avoided by bypassing the EGR and fitting the later type of turbo breather filter.

I've kissed goodbye to diesel ~50mpg for a couple of years and gone for an M5. So I'm going to stop this post there before I remember what decent fuel economy is like.

Burn it while you can and have fun

The BMW will probably handle the best and has the most grip off the line (unless its snowy) and of course it won't torque steer

Also the BMW has a timing chain rather than a belt. Don't get me wrong I think the VAG 1.9 and 2.0 PD TD's are great engines but if you do a belt replacement (including all the idlers) with proper gear it isn't cheap.

[Edited on 4/2/10 by hobbsy]


Thanks, really useful info!!!!

I used to have an E39 M5, awesome awesome car, but the average MPG of 15mpg started to get just too expensive!!!! I do fancy the RWD beemer, but the vag is the more sensible option i think, especially from you info on the early face lift turbos. Are they the TD4's?

MK9R - 4/2/10 at 02:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Right, I have a 51 plate Rover 45 2L TDi that costs £120 a year to tax and does 55mpg.

It cost me £950 2 years ago and I'm sure you can find one cheaper now.

Peeps ask me why I drive round in old bangers and I point to the above facts. Its not a banger, its got no rust, is in very good condition and as far as mileage goes good for 200K.

The only car I've looked at that beats this is a new Note, only problem is they cost 7~8K!



mmm thats interesting, i know those engines well from the freelanders, but only got about 34-36mpg (apart from when "modified" to 2 wheel drive and sitting on the motorway at 70mph when 40mpg could be achieved)

franky - 4/2/10 at 02:42 PM

I don't think you'll get a golf/cupra tdi 130/150 for 3.5k with 100ish k on the clock... they'll be nearer 4.5k.

MK9R - 4/2/10 at 02:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by hobbsy
I believe that's pretty much the same engine as in the 320D just with less horsepower.

You're still looking 4 to 5k for a 320d of that vintage (unless mega miles) whereas your Rover looks like a comparative bargain at <£950. A lot more to do with image than anything else to explain the price difference

Really depends what you want - I wouldn't call a 51 plate car a banger either.


Your thinking of the TD4, not the old cast iron rover engine that will last for ever

MK9R - 4/2/10 at 02:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by franky
I don't think you'll get a golf/cupra tdi 130/150 for 3.5k with 100ish k on the clock... they'll be nearer 4.5k.


your right can't find a cupra, but have got close to a 150 for that, could have had it for 3800 but missed out, gutted as it was really nice with R32 wheels. plenty of 130's for under 4k about

[Edited on 4/2/10 by MK9R]

hobbsy - 4/2/10 at 02:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MK9R

Thanks, really useful info!!!!

I used to have an E39 M5, awesome awesome car, but the average MPG of 15mpg started to get just too expensive!!!! I do fancy the RWD beemer, but the vag is the more sensible option i think, especially from you info on the early face lift turbos. Are they the TD4's?


How long did you run your M5 for?

I'm planning on a couple of years, always wanted something with a big V8 (and decent chassis and a manual box) and it certainly fits the bill. I've had a couple of turbo diesel daily drivers and I know I can always go out and get another now or in the future. I can't say that will be the case with cars like the E39 M5 (all future M cars will be 6 cyls or less and turbo'ed it seems).

If you're asking about the turbo on the 320d its a Garrett VNT, something like GT17V (from memory).

Don't be completely put off by the turbo issues - get a later none affected model or an earlier one thats had a brand new turbo fitted (like mine - a bargain for its new owner around Xmas time). I was still slightly paranoid about the swirl flap issue though but you're always going to see angry posts from people who've been affected - those who are motoring trouble free don't feel compelled to post about it etc!

MK9R - 4/2/10 at 03:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by hobbsy
quote:
Originally posted by MK9R

Thanks, really useful info!!!!

I used to have an E39 M5, awesome awesome car, but the average MPG of 15mpg started to get just too expensive!!!! I do fancy the RWD beemer, but the vag is the more sensible option i think, especially from you info on the early face lift turbos. Are they the TD4's?


How long did you run your M5 for?

I'm planning on a couple of years, always wanted something with a big V8 (and decent chassis and a manual box) and it certainly fits the bill. I've had a couple of turbo diesel daily drivers and I know I can always go out and get another now or in the future. I can't say that will be the case with cars like the E39 M5 (all future M cars will be 6 cyls or less and turbo'ed it seems).

If you're asking about the turbo on the 320d its a Garrett VNT, something like GT17V (from memory).

Don't be completely put off by the turbo issues - get a later none affected model or an earlier one thats had a brand new turbo fitted (like mine - a bargain for its new owner around Xmas time). I was still slightly paranoid about the swirl flap issue though but you're always going to see angry posts from people who've been affected - those who are motoring trouble free don't feel compelled to post about it etc!


Had the M5 for about 9months i think, which at the time was a long time for me!! The clutch went the weekend i had it, it was obviously on its way out when i bought it, but hooning around the first weekend saw it off. There is a valve in the lutch system that releases the clutch slower than your foot to smooth the massive power out through the transmission, but the down side is if you belt it off the line a lot it eats the clutch. I was concerned about the MPG, there was a small leak from the rear diff and the gear change had become a bit sloppy so i took it to thornymotorsport for a check up I, and i received a £1750 bill for a diff seal rebuild, new brake discs and pads all round and i treated it to a shortshift kit (which i recommend it was amazing and how it should have come from the factory). Even with all the money i spent on it, I absolutely loved it, but I was doing 200miles a day going to work and back so bought an old LPG granny to do it in as it would have finacially crippled me to do it in the M5!! I ended up only using the M5 at weekends, so decided to cash it in and get a weekend toy (elise) and sensible A6 family diesel estate. The A6 lasted about 2 days before i was bored to death so i swapped it for a Saab 95 V6 TDi, which i have to say was amazing and when on the motorway cruisinh it would accelerate nearly as quickily as the M5 thanks to the great big diesel lump!

tweek - 4/2/10 at 03:54 PM

My sister has a Seat Cordoba SE TDI 130 and its a cracker! Just an Ibiza with a boot but because of the boot it will be maybe £500 - £1k cheaper than the virtually identical Ibiza FR TDI. Great fun, goes like stink and has a big boot too.

Sold in the uk up until 2006 so you should be able to bag one of the late ones. Her 2004-ish example was £4k about 2 years ago with 64k miles.

Best of luck whatever you decide on.

Edit: for instance this one - autotraderlinky

[Edited on 4/2/10 by tweek]

MK9R - 4/2/10 at 03:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by tweek
My sister has a Seat Cordoba SE TDI 130 and its a cracker! Just an Ibiza with a boot but because of the boot it will be maybe £500 - £1k cheaper than the virtually identical Ibiza FR TDI. Great fun, goes like stink and has a big boot too.

Sold in the uk up until 2006 so you should be able to bag one of the late ones. Her 2004-ish example was £4k about 2 years ago with 64k miles.

Best of luck whatever you decide on.


excellent spot!!

TimC - 7/2/10 at 10:02 PM

I ran a 5-door Ibiza FR TDi as a company car for 9 months. It was pretty faultless and I piled on the miles in that time - think 1500miles+ a week!

Was a nice thing with cruise, auto wipers etc etc. However, I NEVER saw 50mpg.

morcus - 8/2/10 at 02:29 AM

If you can find one cheap enough a Bravo diesel would seem to fit most of your requirements. My Cousin drives one with 150 Bhp and drives it hard and gets MPG in the 40's. Its also quite spacious.
I know alot of people will say 'don't buy it, its a Fiat' but it might be worth having a look.

MikeRJ - 8/2/10 at 12:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by tweek
My sister has a Seat Cordoba SE TDI 130 and its a cracker! Just an Ibiza with a boot but because of the boot it will be maybe £500 - £1k cheaper than the virtually identical Ibiza FR TDI. Great fun, goes like stink


I've heard this from several diesel owners that thought their oil burners were quick until I took them for a spin in my Fiat! Turbo diesels certainly feel quick due to the all or nothing power delivery, but unless you have something like a 330/335D they really aren't as quick as they feel.

Good call on the saloon variants, they are often a good bargain if you aren't worried about having a hatch, and the Golf has always carried a hefty premium due to it's (mostly undeserved) reputation. The VW Bora, Seat Toldeo and Skoda Octavia may be worth a look if you like VAG cars.

Watch out for the PD 150 engine, they have chocolate cam shafts.

MikeRJ - 8/2/10 at 12:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by morcus
I know alot of people will say 'don't buy it, its a Fiat' but it might be worth having a look.


I wouldn't, Fiat make some of the best diesel engines around at the moment, and the overall quality of the cars is significantly better than they used to be.

morcus - 8/2/10 at 09:49 PM

What are you driving Mike? I've been considering upgrading to a Bravo myself which is why I bought it up but I've discovered that the 1.4T Petrol is the only option if you want a Duallogic box and its the 1.9 diesel with 150bhp that I really want.
I actually think from what I saw last year when I was last buying a car that Fiats are better put together than Fords and Vauxhalls these days.

flak monkey - 8/2/10 at 09:56 PM

Whilst the FR150 Leon is a fantastic car and has a lot more toys than the golf, I think you will struggle to find a good one for the sort of money you are talking. They seem to hold their money better than the Golf.

My sister has a Golf GT TDi 130 and its brill. She regularly gets a real 60+mpg on her 100 mile round trip every day. And she paid just over £4k for a 40k mile example....

David

MikeRJ - 9/2/10 at 12:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by morcus
What are you driving Mike?


I've got an old Fiat, 20V Turbo Coupe but I had an urge to buy an Abarth 500 a while back (fortunately managed to get over it) and it felt really well put together.

Jon Ison - 9/2/10 at 08:06 AM

Focus, top car cheap to run

hobbsy - 9/2/10 at 10:16 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by morcus
What are you driving Mike?


I've got an old Fiat, 20V Turbo Coupe but I had an urge to buy an Abarth 500 a while back (fortunately managed to get over it) and it felt really well put together.


I've fancied one of these in the past, nice 5 pot soundtrack but the cambelts every (small amount of mileage) put me off a bit.

What does it do MPG wise?

Early ones seem cheap but they're at the price where they may not be owned by the most careful of owners.

MikeRJ - 9/2/10 at 10:29 AM

Cambelts are every 72,000 miles officially, but most specialists recommend 60,000 miles. Changing it is not as bad as people tend to make out, I did mine on my driveway in an afternoon. Clearance is very tight, but by unbolting a couple of engine mounts and jacking the engine up and down it's possible.

Mileage wise it's nothing short of excellent for the performance IMO. I commute between Plymouth and Paignton everyday which is about 30 miles each way and includes fast dual carriageway, twisty B roads and a lot of start-stop through Totnes and it rarely falls below 27mpg, even driven 'enthusiasticly'. On a good motorway run 30+ mpg is possible. Performance wise you will upset most Imprezas with the in gear performance, but obviously getting off the line is somewhat slower.

Running costs are reasonable as well, (for the performance). There are several specialist around the country that do good work for reasonable prices, or if you can DIY then OEM parts are obtainable from them at a good discount. There are plenty of very cheap ones around, but of course like most cheap performance cars many have been abused. Find a nice one and take it for a test drive, you'll be hooked.

I bought mine cheap on eBay with a blown engine, the previous owner got a bit enthusiastic with winding up the boost. Fitted new pistons and rings, had the head reconditioned, rebuilt the turbo myself and it's still going strong some 30,000 miles later and not using a drop of oil. Most however do use some oil, and not checking it has killed plenty of these cars!

hobbsy - 9/2/10 at 10:41 AM

I thought the cambelt intervals were worse than that.

Have you put the boost back down to standard then?

My old 200SX would do similar MPG, maybe a few less but then it did have >350bhp.

If I remember there was a bit of friendly rivalry between the SX and Fiat Coupe owners on trackdays and rolling road shoot outs. Never got involved myself.

Its still somewhere on my list of cars to own (in the affordable section!) mostly for the fact its a turbo'ed 5pot If it were RWD I would've probably had one by now.

MikeRJ - 10/2/10 at 08:21 PM

Yes, I removed the manual boost controller, but I really need to put it back (set to stock level) as the stock electronic boost control is a bit pants. It allows too much overboost for my liking (have seen it spike to 1.4 bar!) and will sometimes make the boost oscillate up and down at full throttle.

Having looked through the forum it seems a very common issue, and a manual boost controller is the recommended fix.

morcus - 10/2/10 at 10:57 PM

Was the Barchetta on the same running gear? I wanted one of those (And the Coupé) for a while but I don't think they ever came as auto's