Ok, its 5 hours since i picked my car up and i'm still fuming.

What should i do? and what do you think is wrong?

Had my car serviced a month ago and asked them (the local ford specialist) to look into a problem with banging and judder on hard acceleration that is getting worse and worse. It sounded like the engine was going to drop out.

Diagnosed a failed gearbox mount and play in the nearside lower suspension arm (possibly cause i'd mentioned that after this had started happening i had kerbed the car at speed avoiding a pillock - although interestingly as part of that service it also passed its MOT from the garage 3 doors down).

To replace the gearbox mount its a big job with the gearbox out. This also almost means removing the lower arm so it won't cost much to replace that as well. I said you may as well do the clutch then & how much for a dual mass fly at the same time. Came to a guestimated 800 quid + vat.

Agreed he'd get the car tuesday for two days.

Dropped the car off and he said he was going to take it to fords to see his friend at the dealer who still worked there (he used to) to get to the bottom of the noise. Really concerned me as i thought he'd already diagnosed the fault - but thought better safe than expensive sorry.

Not heard anything from him and i know he's not good at keeping people in the loop so i wandered by on wednesday at 2:30 with the dog. Turns out he hadn't got hold of the flywheel but was hoping to get one at 3pm so he'd start then ...... no car back for me (which really pee'd me off as i had the first day of a new job today (friday)).

Didn't hear anything from him again on friday, so called him 5:30 ..... just going to call you. Jobs done, going to take it out for another test drive to check it. The box mount hadn't failed but a different engine mount had so i've replaced that.

Went down, took it for a drive and it was probably a fraction better. I got lots of story about its the lack of traction control. Everything has been replaced. Your dual mass was knackered, you could pull it up and down. The clutch only had a couple of thousand miles left. Look the clutch housing has scrapes on it - these are where the fly has been moving.

I pulled faces as he was adding up the bill.

I got engine mount, clutch, dual mass, release bearing, gearbox oil, flywheel bolts for .... 1104 quid all in. He also offered 50 quid off the next service and apologised for not calling me when the price went up. I paid by cheque.

So, what do people think
a) is the problem, could it be the lower suspension arm? something wrong with the diff?
b) do i have a leg to stand on to go back and spit my dummy about the price changing and him not fixing the problem.

(also had him replace the EGR valve about a year ago - not sure if its relevant)

Does anyone know any really good garages or ford specialists in the nuneaton / tamworth or rugby areas?

[Edited on 1/4/10 by MikeR]

not good to hear its not gone well but £800 or more for a duel mass flywheel and clutch alone seems the going price

So the Ford specialist, had to take it to a Ford garage to get a diagnosis?

What car is it?

did he fix the fault ?? If not all the work he did was irrelevant and he should have advised you. If you kerbed the car the problem could be down to the drive shaft, diff, wheel, wheel bearing. Worth going to the Citizens advice bereau and asking

[Edited on 1/4/10 by austin man]

car is a ford focus tdci 134bhp ghia on 05 plate. full service history and 72k miles.

The problem started before the kerbing (i'm sure - just thought it seemed strange that i mention the kerbing and it needs a new lower wishbone due to play but it still passes MOT).

I think the problem started with what felt like a bit of torque steer. It wasn't 100% straight line flooring it. It got worse with a little judder, almost pulsing on acceration and is now on hard acceleration is the attrocious banging.

It could be the wheel losing and getting grip - but in the wet when it looses grip it will spin up the tyres. So why does it sometimes spin up the tyre and other times lose / grab grip repeatidly.

Tyres are about 4 months old branded something or others.

Faulty Wheel Bearing, Bent Driveshaft, Damaged CV Joint or Diff fault ?




[Edited on 1/4/10 by perksy]

did he give you back your old flywheel etc , !!!!!did he even fit new one ,or second hand one , duealmass will juder thats probably all that was wrong

Whats the car?

From your description I'd be initially thinking engine or stabiliser mounting. Could be wishbone (could be worn but still pass MOT and whether it got an advisory would depend on the tester). DMF usually gives a clatter rather than a banging but could be.

adrian

Oooo not nice for you Mike! ....
I assume wheel bearings/ tracking/ balance have been checked in the first instance?

Fozzie

Edit typo

[Edited on 1-4-10 by Fozzie]

mate who works for AA, based on the description before this work was done said engine mount is seems like a likely cause.

As thats been fixed .....

He did show me a dual mass and flywheel - thing is, they could be ones he keeps hanging around for when people turn up and ask to see them. Problem is he seems a nice bloke, i just don't know how far i can trust him now. I appreciate the work he's done to do the dual mass + clutch etc is a good price. But if i've still got the problem i've got a car i'm nervous driving (can't pull out in a hurry due to the problem).

Any simple tests for bearing / cv / drive shaft / diff???? i can't think of any.

I can't see how you need the gearbox out to change either of the mounts on it. I did a clutch on one just last week and you take the mounts off then the box out after.

Sarting to sound like a shocker/tyre problem causing wheel tramp maybe.

adrian

anyway watever the problem is the garage has failed to correct what he has been paid to do, and it is covered under the sale of goods and services act ,

Cancel the cheque and get the car back to him asking him why the car still makes the noise and that youre not paying anything over the QUOTED amount.

ETA: OR Cancel the cheque and go somewhere else. Main dealer would be my preference, though ive seen and heard some horror stories there as well


[Edited on 1-4-10 by MakeEverything]

definately cancell cheque at least then you have some leverage cos he will just tell you on yer bike otherwise

CV joint is my best guess - are the boots in good shape? You could try opening up the boots and dig out some grease and see if it's full of metal particles.

When i had my clutch done on my focus but on 2lt petrol, that came out of the garage with a banging/judder on acceleration like yours, took it back turned out the gearbox mount wasn't tightened up correctly so there was movement causing the sound.

Hate to say it but it sounds like one of those faults that if the chap hasn't seen it exactly before is going to take a while to track down.

Specialist garages can be good, but they're not main dealers. Unfortunately main stealers rip you off with labour rates, part prices etc.

Given the problem isn't solved, perhaps worth dropping into the main dealers and asking them for a price to fix?

Doesn't sound like the chap's necessarily ripped you off (especially if the price for th e clutch was OK), but if you mentioned possible sources of the problems before he started diagnosis then that's probably where his brain immediately went to and he just went ahead without further diagnosis?

focus tdci can be prone to flywheels but normally give a bad rattle and banging on start up and keying off,the price for that does'nt seem bad.They are not how ever prone to engine mounts or bottom arms,as a main dealer tec and mot tester i hav'nt failed or replaced many.if the roll restricter bolts are ass about face ie in the wrong holes one is longer than the other that will cause a noise.
If the wheels are spinning you will get tramping and banging,does it have any vibration through the dash(we call scuttle shake)when driving up hill and putting under load,this would indicate a drive shaft inner joint.Other than that go back and say that the fault is still there,demonstrate it to him and say your not happy,as a tec its always good to get the customer to show and reproduce the fault to ensure it is a proper concern not just the way they drive.not saying its your driving but if he rides with you he can see whats happening and when.

I had the diff feplaced on my 02 Mondeo.
This sounds more probable to be CV joint

Sounds like your diff, I replaced the gears in one on a peugeot 405 Mi-16 a while ago, car started making loud banging and juddering on acceleration, I checked the driveshafts and they were ok, I ended up taking a mate out in the car and he said straight away 'it's your diff', I changed the 3 little gears in the diff without taking the gearbox out!
deffinatley sounds like drivetrain from what you are explaining.

Just a thought, put the car on axle stands and have it running in 2nd gear and get someone to turn the wheel from lock to lock whilst you look/listen from under the car. you may be able to see what the problem is, driveshafts ect.

i would agree it sounds diff related, scrapped my multipla some time ago with very very similar asymptoms, it was the diff and repair wasnt economically viable

mechanic has been out in the car himself repeatedly and has reproduced the problem himself. Took me out in it last night and said "its cause it doesn't have traction control" - except it never used to do this

When he first saw the problem he said "it only happens if you don't drive like a granny". Last night he said, "it only happens if you're really agressive with it". Reality is ..... if you floor it in second once rolling in the wet it has a 50 / 50 chance of spinning the wheels or doing the banging. I think its worse when you've got a bit of steering on.

Need to go out in the car again today to see if its as bad or if i was over egging the problem last night in my bad mood.

Take it to a main dealers for diagnosis, you don't have to get it repaired there?

guess i'll have to do that - although the mechanic was ex main dealer and took it back to his mates for their view as well as collecting the ford parts.

Does it not have any warranty on it?

You can save a small fortune if when buying a newish car you buy a few years worth of servicing and extended warrantie, if anything goes wrong they have to fix it and its all already payed for.

Well you agreed to the work and it was done, so you don't really have much of a leg to stand on in terms of getting your money back. A garage doesn't gaurantee they'll 'fix the problem' for £xx - doubt many would still be in business if they did that! However, you didn't agree to the inflated cost so you should have some rights there imho.

As for the problem - hmmmmm? Take the car to a nice industrial estate, open the bonnet, get back in, peer through the gap at the bottom and give it some hard acceleration. See if the engine is shaking about like buggery when the noise is happening. Should eliminate/confirm a few causes.

Knackered outer CVs can show up by going to full lock either way and driving round in a circle. Really brings out the clunking. Are we talking just sound or car-shaking juddering here?

Liam

quote:

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Originally posted by MikeR
mechanic has been out in the car himself repeatedly and has reproduced the problem himself. Took me out in it last night and said "its cause it doesn't have traction control" - except it never used to do this

When he first saw the problem he said "it only happens if you don't drive like a granny". Last night he said, "it only happens if you're really agressive with it". Reality is ..... if you floor it in second once rolling in the wet it has a 50 / 50 chance of spinning the wheels or doing the banging. I think its worse when you've got a bit of steering on.

Need to go out in the car again today to see if its as bad or if i was over egging the problem last night in my bad mood.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Liam
Well you agreed to the work and it was done, so you don't really have much of a leg to stand on in terms of getting your money back. A garage doesn't gaurantee they'll 'fix the problem' for £xx - doubt many would still be in business if they did that!

Liam

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As anybody thought of checking the exhaust system ?

Putting the car in a low gear with the hand brake off and rocking it back forward should reveal where the problem originates.

No intention of cancelling the cheque - i got a good price for a clutch and dual mass replacement & i do think he's actually done the work. The thing is, that was ONLY done due to the fact he said he had to take the box out to replace the 60 quid gearbox mount. It made good sense to do it. He had the car in prior to doing the work to identify the problem & when he had it in he decided to take it somewhere for a second opinion & hasn't at the end of it all actually fixed the problem.

If he said it needed a new top engine steady bar - i wouldn't have had the clutch / dual mass done. I'm also miffed that whilst i got a good price for the clutch & dual mass the price he quoted me at 800 quid is a LOT less than the 1104 quid i ended up paying. He replaced bits without asking me / warning me it needed doing. Its a hell of a shock to find the price going up by that much and even more annoying to find the whole reason the car went in hasn't been fixed & he's completely changed his tune from "oooh its bad" to "they all do that sir" (when it never used too).

Not had a chance to take the car out today (family stuff). Will be looking taking it to paynes hinckley next week hopefully (i can hopefully squeeze in getting to them whilst travelling between Rugby and Tamworth with work and will try some of the suggestions in the mean time.

[Edited on 4/4/10 by MikeR]