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Sequential gearshifts
Alan B - 7/12/12 at 04:10 PM

Guys, I have a modular sequential gear change mechanism designed that I'm going to use in my Tiki project.
It would be adaptable to most mid or front engined cars that use cable gearchanges.

Does anyone see any commercial possiblities in a product like this, bearing in mind It will be a lot cheaper than anything on the market already?

Or maybe just build my own and forget about?

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Alan

snapper - 7/12/12 at 04:30 PM

If it will convert a 5 or 6 speed H pattern box then yes
Would also be adaptable to paw shift as well
How does it deal with reverse?

Ivan - 7/12/12 at 04:31 PM

Not sure what you are planning but if it's well designed and well manufactured and reasonably priced and for a commonly used engine/gearbox combination I think there will be a good market.

Even bigger pent up demand for something to adapt to the Type 9 RWD gearbox with reverse - success will depend on reliability.

I think you should build your one and test it thoroughly before considering marketing it.

Alan B - 7/12/12 at 04:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by snapper
If it will convert a 5 or 6 speed H pattern box then yes
Would also be adaptable to paw shift as well
How does it deal with reverse?


Yes, the idea is to replace the H pattern.
What's a paw shift?
Reverse is the opposite side of neutral, could be locked out if need be.

Good input thanks.

Alan B - 7/12/12 at 04:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ivan
Not sure what you are planning but if it's well designed and well manufactured and reasonably priced and for a commonly used engine/gearbox combination I think there will be a good market.

Even bigger pent up demand for something to adapt to the Type 9 RWD gearbox with reverse - success will depend on reliability.

I think you should build your one and test it thoroughly before considering marketing it.


Thanks for the response, more good input.

I will definitely be testing it thoroughly, that's a certainty...

rodgling - 7/12/12 at 04:50 PM

Sounds interesting. Will it handle pressing the clutch / rev-blipping as well?

Alan B - 7/12/12 at 04:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rodgling
Sounds interesting. Will it handle pressing the clutch / rev-blipping as well?


I guess so as it shouldn't affect those functions either way.

Basically, I'm replacing the H pattern with pull, pull, pull to change up and push, push push to change down.

rodgling - 7/12/12 at 06:18 PM

I mean, will it do those for you? Not sure I see much advantage if it doesn't press the clutch for you?

Alan B - 7/12/12 at 06:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rodgling
I mean, will it do those for you? Not sure I see much advantage if it doesn't press the clutch for you?


Ah.....gotcha...see what you mean now......the answer, to be honest is I never even thought of that, I was just assuming you'd operate the clutch and throttle as normal.

It certainly doable, but perhaps its back to the drawing board for while.

Cheers for the input.

CNHSS1 - 7/12/12 at 06:30 PM

Ikeya sequential shifters are available and have been for 8-9 years in Japan

mostly Jap model specific boxes, Nissans (i had one), Evos etc.

if you made one for a Type 9 or T5 i reckon youd have a great market.

the ikeyas are between £850 and £1250 in the UK btw

http://www.ikeya-f.co.jp/en/index.html


click on one of the car images for videos in operation

Alan B - 7/12/12 at 06:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CNHSS1
Ikeya sequential shifters are available and have been for 8-9 years in Japan

mostly Jap model specific boxes, Nissans (i had one), Evos etc.

if you made one for a Type 9 or T5 i reckon youd have a great market.

the ikeyas are between £850 and £1250 in the UK btw

http://www.ikeya-f.co.jp/en/index.html


click on one of the car images for videos in operation


Cheers...good info.

Thanks, Alan

TAZZMAXX - 7/12/12 at 09:57 PM

A bit of further reading for the OP

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/170149-anyone-tried-ikeya-sequential-shifter.html?highlight=ikeya+sequential+shifter

coyoteboy - 7/12/12 at 11:10 PM

Thought about this myself a few times but always come back to the fact that thereseems little point. Doesn't mean there is no market though.



The shift will be as slow as an h shift?

Alan B - 8/12/12 at 03:59 PM

More good input...cheers all.

I think I will just build one for my project, test and develop it to death....then look at the commercial possibilites....if I'm still interested...

MakeEverything - 8/12/12 at 08:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Thought about this myself a few times but always come back to the fact that thereseems little point. Doesn't mean there is no market though.



The shift will be as slow as an h shift?


With less risk of jumping into the wrong or missing a gear.

coyoteboy - 11/12/12 at 12:17 PM

Personally never managed to mis-shift an H box (though I know people who have) and I don't think a paddle shift conversion will stop you from missing a gear without some clever electronic control rather than mechanical.

I've heard in more than one place that H>paddle shifts generally work out slower to shift than an H box alone. The kid in me likes the idea, the logical analysis says different. I'd quite like to robotise a box but I'd need to run a hydraulic pump too to push teh clutch and that's even more crap to carry around when you could just use the same method that's been fine for decades

[Edited on 11/12/12 by coyoteboy]

CNHSS1 - 12/12/12 at 09:55 AM

When at 11/10ths its easy enough to mishift an H pattern. As you have your hand on the shifter and go kerb hopping on circuit, the reulting jolt affects the whole body inc the hand and can pull the lever too far/not enough across the gate. Very lilely in rallying too.
The sequential shifters take out some of that inaccuracy, as so long as it goes back or forth far enough, any side load doesnt effect the shift.

On 'real' sequenti race boxes, they use dog rings for gear engagement so you have to have zero mechanical sympathy and slam the gears in, or yiu risk excessive dog wear or breakage. Same goes for H pattern dog boxes, so again sequential takes out some of the possibilties for screw up

maccmike - 12/12/12 at 10:24 AM

the lotus on that japanese link uses the clutch operated by the foot. not really convinced by theyre product.

CNHSS1 - 12/12/12 at 12:15 PM

the ikeya and the OPs suggested project i assume, just changes the shift pattern. If you want clucthless too, thats a different game, unless you have the shifter mech attached to a 'dog box.

i had one of the ikeyas and they are fun but ultimately not essentail enough to carry the weight on a hillclimber just because i wanted to be a tart!

coyoteboy - 12/12/12 at 01:35 PM

I'm aware of the mechanical issues with all of the gearbox types, I've just never found I mis-shift but I'm also probably not that fast at shifting to be fair.

But converting an H to a seq conversion would stop this either. Fundamentally a seq dog box can't really BE mis-shifted due to the combination of dogs and sequential nature. A seq conversion onto a non-dog H box means incomplete shifts are perfectly possible (the action of disengaging one gear comes before shifting into another gear because of the H mechanism), so the only thing it really takes out is the sideways motion of the gear lever. Also, the distance moved by the top of the gear lever will necessarily need to be reduced when in paddle form, so the mechanical advantage will have to be lost, meaning it'll be harder to shift physically, now using your fingers instead of your arm.

CNHSS1 - 12/12/12 at 02:42 PM

theory is a wonderful thing, reality is another

Mis shifts are possible on sequentials in my experience, but i havent used one with buttons/paddles to be fair on a dog or std box.

mis shifts are possible on dog boxes too, with a 'stick in the hand' shift

but im not interested in debating the subject, just helping OP with info and experinces ive had, will leave it to you all chaps

CNH

Alan B - 12/12/12 at 02:54 PM

The info. and shared experiences are much appreciated.

Thanks everyone.

coyoteboy - 13/12/12 at 01:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CNHSS1
theory is a wonderful thing, reality is another

Mis shifts are possible on sequentials in my experience, but i havent used one with buttons/paddles to be fair on a dog or std box.

mis shifts are possible on dog boxes too, with a 'stick in the hand' shift

but im not interested in debating the subject, just helping OP with info and experinces ive had, will leave it to you all chaps

CNH


Indeed, but you've really just made my point so it's not much of a debate - my point was that it doesn't gain you much (if anything, when you look at the possibility of mis-shifts on seq dogs boxes) other than a half-way house with more issues. Since the OP was interested in knowing if there would be demand, the discussion is important really, as it's fundamental to the question of "would people buy it?".

MikeRJ - 13/12/12 at 03:39 PM

I think this would be a great addition to a "dog" box (gearkits are available for type 9) where it could actually speed up gear changes, and with a suitable ignition/fuel cut switch could allow WOT clutchless up shifts.

However, on a synchromesh box I feel this would probably be more of a novelty than a performance mod, but that's not to say that there would be no demand.

gaz_gaz - 13/12/12 at 03:51 PM

I had 1 of those ikeya shifters on my GTR and it was worse than awful
It was a nightmare to get working properly and even then it wasn't guaranteed to shift correctly every time.
I also found downshifting through the gears quickly to be pretty bad.

There used a fair bit by owners over on the Evo forums.

I'm now using a Hewland 6 speed. 20 times the cost of the ikeya kit with employee discount though