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Is putting note on cars Vandalism?

morcus - 16/12/12 at 04:48 PM

westf27 - 16/12/12 at 04:54 PM

Probably if you write it with a screwdriver

could well be if the wiper fell off in your hand whilst leaving the note,nothing would surprise me

matt_claydon - 16/12/12 at 04:57 PM

Some background?

NigeEss - 16/12/12 at 05:05 PM

Nope.

I have left many a note for the assh0les who park in stupid places and if they have really
annoyed me I've written the note on the windscreen in permanent black marker !!

morcus - 16/12/12 at 05:09 PM

This is mostly a hyperthetical but if it makes a difference, a car in a public place and not doing anything illegal or stupid.

If it does make a difference, when would it be vandalism, and when would it not be?

Dangle_kt - 16/12/12 at 05:12 PM

I would assume when damage is done - a paper note does no damage else them bloomin flyers under your wiper at the supermarket would have been sued by everyone going.

If someone is tryin to make out it is vandelism then I'd converse only via notes stuck to my ass from then on, just to prove what they are being.

cliftyhanger - 16/12/12 at 05:12 PM

lets put it this way. The police are unlikely to want to get involved if you put a note under somebodies wiper. If you supegleu something to the windscreen it may be different.
Or are you asking if somebody puts a parking charge notice on a car??

BigFaceDave - 16/12/12 at 05:19 PM

I'm fairly certain if you accidentally damage someone's car and their not around isn't it a legal requirement to leave a note? Therefore it can't be vandalism can it?

Slimy38 - 16/12/12 at 05:30 PM

We used to have trouble with illegal parking on our work car park (private land), so security used to stick A4 paper signs to the drivers window. And by 'stick', I mean with something that has the consistency and stickiness of snot. Even if they got the A4 page off, the glass would be pretty messed up.

Never got anyone complaining, and we never saw the cars again.

jps - 16/12/12 at 06:08 PM

What normal people call 'vandalism' the police refer to as 'criminal damage'. The definition states that permanent damage must be caused, eg spraying shaving foam onto a car bonnet isn't 'criminal damage' as it can be washed off easily, won't mark the surface. Throwing a tin of paint across a car bonnet is an offence though, it can't be easily rectified.

Whether or not offences are recorded is to an extent down to discretion of officers though, which probably explains why this year where i live the number of'criminal damage' offences recorded has fallen by a third...

matt_claydon - 16/12/12 at 06:10 PM

I'm just confused by the question, and by the 2 people who have so far said 'yes'! How can something that doesn't cause any damage be vandalism?

robinj66 - 16/12/12 at 06:44 PM

Criminal Damage includes "non-permanent" damage such as graffiti. Basically, if "expense of inconvenience" is involved in putting the matter right then the offence has been made out. Even deleting a computer program which can be replaced can constitute crim damage.

snapper - 16/12/12 at 07:22 PM

Permenant and malicious damage
Something like writing on a car with permenant marker would be considered an offence
A note or a flyer would not

scootz - 16/12/12 at 07:27 PM

No idea about England and Wales, but in Scotland... definitely not!

morcus - 16/12/12 at 07:31 PM

Thanks for the replies, the answer seems to be almost unanimous.

scudderfish - 16/12/12 at 07:55 PM

Why are you asking?

britishtrident - 16/12/12 at 08:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
We used to have trouble with illegal parking on our work car park (private land), so security used to stick A4 paper signs to the drivers window. And by 'stick', I mean with something that has the consistency and stickiness of snot. Even if they got the A4 page off, the glass would be pretty messed up.

Never got anyone complaining, and we never saw the cars again.

Obstructing the drivers vision is asking to get sued if they have an accident --- but rear side widows are fair game

scootz - 16/12/12 at 09:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Obstructing the drivers vision is asking to get sued if they have an accident...

On what basis? It's not like someone has surreptitiously sabotaged your vehicle... you know before you drive off if your view is obstructed!

It's the drivers responsibility to make sure that the car is fit for the road, so you either clean the affected area until it's no longer a problem... or don't drive!

snakebelly - 16/12/12 at 09:49 PM

So who's car did you leave a note on and why?

morcus - 16/12/12 at 09:55 PM

I've not done anything to any one, I was trying to prove a point with someone else, though of course he doesn't accept a Locost builders poll.

Ninehigh - 16/12/12 at 09:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by morcus
I've not done anything to any one, I was trying to prove a point with someone else, though of course he doesn't accept a Locost builders poll.

Maybe they should ask the police then

morcus - 16/12/12 at 10:06 PM

We settled it another way...

BigFaceDave - 16/12/12 at 10:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by morcus
We settled it another way...

On a more serious note according to google the definition of vandalism is "Action involving deliberate destruction of or damage to public or private property"

So Seeing as a note on a windscreen cant destruct or damage a car in my mind its simple, No putting a note on a windscreen isnt vandalism. P.S. do they not know that LCB word is final!

omega 24 v6 - 16/12/12 at 11:36 PM

rock paper scissors lizard spock???

Peteff - 17/12/12 at 09:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
rock paper scissors lizard spock???

Can you explain the rules to that please ?

Sheldon's explanation.Here.

[Edited on 17/12/12 by Peteff]

coyoteboy - 17/12/12 at 01:24 PM

It may not be vandalism/criminal damage, but if you lift the wiper to place the note you're tampering with a motor vehicle which is an offence.

FWIW I had a chap scrawl all over my white car in black marker (completely unreasonable given the circumstances) - if I hadn't been in a rush and rather more worried about the safety of a bunch of kids I was supervising I'd have stopped and called the police.

quote:
If, while a motor vehicle is on a road or on a parking place provided by a local authority, a person—

(a)gets on to the vehicle, or

(b)tampers with the brake or other part of its mechanism,

without lawful authority or reasonable cause he is guilty of an offence.

Got to be parked on a road or LA car park though lol.

[Edited on 17/12/12 by coyoteboy]

chillis - 17/12/12 at 03:56 PM

Posting a flyer under your wiper blade could not be considered damage of any kind though it might be annoying.
Likewise if in posting the flyer, the wiper blade broke then this would at most be accidental damage, as the person posting the flyer had not intended to cause damage - Vandalism would be the result of an intent to cause damage.
If your wiper blade was damaged by the posting of a flyer then defence of the accused would likely, be your wiper was faulty and you were thus driving a car with a defect which is an offence
Vandalism/criminal damage, is damage caused with intent, so the perpetraitor has to be shown to have deliberately caused damage to your property ie running a key down the side of your car, not something that could have been caused by accident.

coyoteboy - 17/12/12 at 06:22 PM

Indeed, but it would be "tampering", which is an offence as listed above.

scootz - 17/12/12 at 06:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
... tampers with the brake or other part of its mechanism...

My understanding of that is it just relates to the braking system.

chillis - 17/12/12 at 07:50 PM

Tampering is considered to be interfering with the way in which something works such as loosening a wheel nut. It would have to be a deliberate action that has altered the vehicle in some way for a court to accept 'tampering' just lifting the wiper arm to place a flyer under it would not constitute tampering since no alteration of the car has taken place.
Likewise even if the wiper failed during the lifting to place the flyer I doubt criminal damage would be accepted especially if the defendant could show they had succsessfully place many flyers this way without causing damage. More likely would be considered your wiper was faulty.
The OP wanted to know if it could be considered vandalism. It would not be since the placing of flyers, however annoying, is not done with the intent to cause damage.

It is accepted practise for trafic wardens to post parking tickets this way so I doubt it would be considered vandalism/criminal damage or tampering

[Edited on 17/12/12 by chillis]

[Edited on 17/12/12 by chillis]

[Edited on 17/12/12 by chillis]

coyoteboy - 17/12/12 at 10:59 PM

quote:
My understanding of that is it just relates to the braking system.

Nope, it's just that that was the primary reason for the initial legislation, it's not limited to brake systems. "or other part of it's mechanism" - i.e. the cars mechanism, not the brakes mechanism as that's considered part of the brake.

I suppose you'd have to see if it went to court but since it can include just climbing onto/into a car (which doesn't necessarily damage it, move it, alter it etc) I can't see how you make that leap.

As I said in the first place, it's not vandalism or criminal damage.

quote:
It is accepted practise for trafic wardens to post parking tickets this way so I doubt it would be considered vandalism/criminal damage or tampering

Not any of the ones I've been had by, they've always stuck them on above the wiper. However, they are people authorised to do so, the general public are not.

[Edited on 17/12/12 by coyoteboy]

chillis - 17/12/12 at 11:25 PM

This is getting a little off topic!
Vandalism/criminal damage is intent to cause damage. I doubt there is a court in the land that would consider the placing of a flyer on your car intent to cause damage.
Climbing in or on your car could very well be considered damage with intent regardless of whether any damage is actually caused and is therefore somewhat different.

coyoteboy - 18/12/12 at 12:12 AM

DEAR GOD I NEVER SAID IT WAS VANDALISM.

(FWIW despite my comments, the only reason I find people putting notes under my wipers irritating is because they often blow off and litter the entire area, which is an offence too).

[Edited on 18/12/12 by coyoteboy]