Yes you read it right, and yes this thread probanly should be in the mad house section!

Basically I want to build a batmobile similar to the one in the 89 Keaton movie, but no where near as big!

But...

I dont want to/cant build a car from scratch.

Instead I want to use either a finished/almost finished (road worthy) kit car, a mazda mx5 (mk 1 or 2) or a bmw z3 as a base for it.

I preferably wanna use an mx5 as they are cheap as chips! so lets base this on that, this is my plan:

- Get mx5
- make arches/wheel wells bigger to accomodate tyres on the fron of 28" diameter and 32" diameter on the rear (yes they are big)
- remove windsceen and frame
- build batmobile body AROUND existing one
- new headlights, tail lights, mirrors
- reloacte fuel cap
- windscreen is now a sliding canopy with perspex window
- custom wipers

here is an image to help illustarte my plan:



Possible problems I could face

- wheels wont fit without tampering with structural stuff
- engine/tranmission wont like bigger wheels...
- the dreaded legal tests O_O

Your thoughts

p.s.

no im not trolling
no im not 12 years old
yes i am serious!

Somebody sells a fibreglass body, both full size and kids size. Have seen them advertised.

I have to say that the Keaton bat mobile is my favourite of all the movie cars. But if you try to build one from a mx5 it just won't look right. The wheel base is just to short by about ten foot. You'll end up spending hours of your time building something that looks a bit like a squashed batmobile that people will laugh at. You should do it right or not at all. Just my 2p worth of course. Sometimes full size body kits do come up on eBay.

If it helps AFAIK perspex is not legal for the forward vision portion of the windscreen - you would need glass

Z-cars built one



and http://blip.tv/zcars-uk-performance-engineering/batmobile-replica-made-from-scratch-6461836

Thanks for the replies

I have seen the small kit and the big ones, neither of which interests me as building the body will be the best bit!

The keaton BM is by far the best, and i intend to base mine on it, not copy it exactly.

Windscreen has to be glass.... Well thats a problem, i can bend and cut perspex easy, but glass... Ideas?

Anyone able to clarify my wheel problem?

I can't see there being much of a problem with using the original suspension, but I can see that you'd have to reposition it and a large headache to go with it

Reposition suspension? Can u please explain why

As others have said, would you not be better starting with a bigger car? What you really want is Le Baron or something simillar.

The Tv Batmobile was better, as proved HERE.

quote:

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Originally posted by meathead316
Reposition suspension? Can u please explain why

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Move in or out to account for bigger wheels, please elaborate

The reason i picked these donor cars is: they are relitivly cheap, the proportions (not dimensions) are correct. By that i mean i can have the windscreen positioned at the centre of the wheelbase.

With standard cars the driving position is too close to the front wheels to get the desired look.

Any idea on how i can get custom glass bits made?

I don't really have anything to elaborate on, I just thought there might be a proportion issue, maybe something like the suspension's designed for 16 inch wheels and putting 32's on will mess up the proportion. Really it's just something pulled out of my backside, a gut feeling, nothing more

quote:

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Originally posted by morcus
The Tv Batmobile was better, as proved HERE.

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The good thing with your plan is that the chassis / drivetrain etc is maintained so it's really just adding the bodywork- a bit like those fugly AudiTT replicas based on a Metro a few years back that didn't need SVAing as a result. Not sure whether this has changed though with the switch to IVA.

Ford cougar?

Surely the wheelbase will be too short if you use an MX5 ?
Why not go for something bigger ?

There's going to be a lot of work involved to make this look right, if it turns out well it'll look great but if it doesn't

Capri?
How about a kit that has a ladder type chassis and then re body it?
Much more scope for extending that way
just my 2p
atb
Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by morcus
As others have said, would you not be better starting with a bigger car? What you really want is Le Baron or something simillar.

The Tv Batmobile was better, as proved HERE.

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Thanks for the replies

Apoarently there are two type of test, one for new cars, and one for already registered but now modified cars, and from what ive read the latter is a lot more strict. Anyone know more?

Ive looked at various donor cars, and have been advised to use one with a seperate body and chassis.
Problem is the driving position need to be just in front of the rear wheels...

So, say i got a car that fits the bill, how (lets say a kit car) how hard a job would it be to extend the chassis si that the front wheels are two foot further forward?

Some other points of concern:

- i want it to look similar to the 89 batmobile, the headlights are very low down... Problem?
- windscreen needs to be glass... Er yeah, where would i even start...

As for the 89 vs 66 thing, i think its just down to personal taste, the 66 is much more practical as a car, and as is would probably win a race. But, the 89 just looks so badass, and with such a long hood a complete nutter could install two v8s giving it masses ammounts of power.

Regarding the mention above about changing suspension points, if your doubling the diameter of the wheel, to make it easy for my maths, say from a 15" wheel to a 30" the centre of the wheel will be 7.5" higher than before, and so your ride height will go up by the same. You'd struggle to lower the car that much on the standard suspension, so your mountings will need to move up instead. Thats just the start of it... diff and the rest of the rear axle would change too.

Car just getting a new body on it doesnt need an iva test, so if you took an mx5, all standard and dropped a new body on, thats fine
Any car, kit or standard, that has its chassis modified, either by lengthening a kit car, or cutting the tunnel out of a production car to change from fwd to rwd for example, or lengthening, or moving suspension points, needs to go through iva

You need to go through iva then, you'd be as well building a complete new custom chassis for it, with all the seating, suspension etc all in the right place from the start. Get an mx5 for the running gear, engine, gearbox, rear axle, cooling system, electrics, steering and front uprights and brakes, use it as a donor. You could use most of it to get going.

DO IT! I need to see this done

Very informative post, thank you

Im liking the no test idea.

So say i get an mx5 whats the biggest wheels i can fit on it with no modification and no problems? (Rolled arches are ok)

So if i had my mx5, 25" wheels for example, bodykit, new lights that wouldnt need a test?

But what about me chopping off the windscreen and frame and fitting a sliding canopy?

quote:

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Originally posted by meathead316
Very informative post, thank you

Im liking the no test idea.

So say i get an mx5 whats the biggest wheels i can fit on it with no modification and no problems? (Rolled arches are ok)

So if i had my mx5, 25" wheels for example, bodykit, new lights that wouldnt need a test?

But what about me chopping off the windscreen and frame and fitting a sliding canopy?

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Eh???

Well, in theory, no you wouldnt need a test for, lets just call it a change of wheels, and the rest

But in practice, you'd need to cut away a lot of body and chassis to get wheels that size to fit, and even more to get the front wheels to steer.

Don't know mx5s very well, but I suspect 17" wheels will be about the biggest you'll get without cutting anything away.
Clairetoo is the mx5 mentalist on here, have a look at her V6 mod she did

quote:

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Originally posted by meathead316
Eh???

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^ never seen that before, but in fact a perfect descrption of how it would look and work. No steering lock, ride height way too high. Custom chassis is the way to go in my opinion

Them wheels are massive O_O

I know have a side image of an mx5 without wings etc, gonna have another play using 17" wheels....

Heh Blatman WTF is that thing we are travelling in today?


[img][/img]

Hhhmmm been doing some googling and reading up on how various car bits work.

I have decided that my best bet for a starting point would indeed be a kit car of some sort.

Could i then remove its body and then lenthgen and widen its chassis frame?

Then if i understand correctly to mount the stuff that holds each wheel on wont be to bad, but connecting it all up will be more of a challenge. So if i understand what i have read the steering would require longer track rods (can u not just lengthen standard ones?) a longer steering column (again, cant u just weld some metal on?) then the rears are pretty much just dead on the chassis so no problem, unless its rwd... Longer drive shaft (againt cant u just cut in half and weld a bit in the middle?)

If any of the above is at all possible then thats cool as it will give me a perfect base car. If the plan is crap please detail as to why

quote:

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Originally posted by meathead316
Hhhmmm been doing some googling and reading up on how various car bits work.

I have decided that my best bet for a starting point would indeed be a kit car of some sort.

Could i then remove its body and then lenthgen and widen its chassis frame?

Then if i understand correctly to mount the stuff that holds each wheel on wont be to bad, but connecting it all up will be more of a challenge. So if i understand what i have read the steering would require longer track rods (can u not just lengthen standard ones?) a longer steering column (again, cant u just weld some metal on?) then the rears are pretty much just dead on the chassis so no problem, unless its rwd... Longer drive shaft (againt cant u just cut in half and weld a bit in the middle?)

If any of the above is at all possible then thats cool as it will give me a perfect base car. If the plan is crap please detail as to why

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Personally, I'd start with an old 7.5 ton, short wheelbase truck and work with that. It would be a lot easier as it has chassis rails and will take big back wheels, minor mods required for smaller front wheels. It won't be a cheap project whichever way it's done.

What about an old Limo chassis?

Limo on t'bay

Honestly mate unless you put a lot of time, effort, thought and money into this you'll end up with some half hearted effort that will look crap. A thousand hours plus to do a good job. Thats 1 hour a day for three years nearly. The last thing you need is to be driving around in something like this




or this



or this



You see cars driving down the street all the time that someone has put a lot of effort into but they haven't been committed enough to do a proper job. Maybe it's just me but I just think 'bozo who's wasted his time'. But if I see a proper accurate replica of a movie car I am always impressed.




[Edited on 13/3/13 by Irony]

quote:

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Originally posted by Irony

Honestly mate unless you put a lot of time, effort, thought and money into this you'll end up with some half hearted effort that will look crap. A thousand hours plus to do a good job. Thats 1 hour a day for three years nearly. The last thing you need is to be driving around in something like this

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quote:

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Originally posted by Slimy38

quote:

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Originally posted by Irony

Honestly mate unless you put a lot of time, effort, thought and money into this you'll end up with some half hearted effort that will look crap. A thousand hours plus to do a good job. Thats 1 hour a day for three years nearly. The last thing you need is to be driving around in something like this

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Now that one is the best I've seen, but it still looks bad!

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No im not a silly little kid! Its just that cars are quite complex just like any piece of machinery, but as soon as you understand what everything is and does and how and why it does it, then its not complicated anymore.

If im gonna have to chop up a car i would rather it was a kit car than a normal car as a kit car is a lot simpler as its basically just a chassis and running gear (no aircon, elec windows, stereo system etc etc to faff with)

So would my plan i mentioned in my last post be viable?

Onto the pics of "batmobiles" posted O_O what a bunch of sheds!!! Well except the first one, quite an accurate replica of the car in the 90's animated series, still not to my taste but looks just like it.

What about a UVA Fugitive? They look long and thin with huge wheels at the rear.

quote:

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Originally posted by meathead316

So would my plan i mentioned in my last post be viable?

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'Its just that cars are quite complex just like any piece of machinery, but as soon as you understand what everything is and does and how and why it does it, then its not complicated anymore.'

Oh if only this were true! We would have designed our own projects and built them, and made millions selling our own cars.

IMHO

You have put a lot of thought so far into this project, but, BUT if you want to end up with something you are proud of and is worthy of the time let alone the money that would be spent in doing this, and is seen through to the finish, you may like to consider this...

If it's worth doing it's worth doing properly.
The order of project approach then should be something like....

1. So first decide upon what wheels and tyres you want to use.
2. Design a suspension set up that will give the handling that you want (BTW even the professionals can't agree on this and it is a 'black art', look up 'string calculator'
3. Design a chassis to suite your suspension, and what forces will be going through said car.
4. Finally (sort of) bodywork, lights, and so on.
5. Start building, only be prepared to regularly go back a few steps and change things as things never go as planned. Also changing one thing tends to lead to changing lots of other bits.

Very best of luck with this, I do hope you end up with what you want, but I hope you are starting to realise the enormity of what your trying to achieve.

I did say earlier that i dont want to build a car, what i meant was i dont want to get metal, build a frame, then get suspension and wheel hubs, add them on..........

I wouls rather, to save time and money, get a kit car, anything, locost dutton fugitive, as they are all quite similar in their sumplicity (ie just basic running gear on a frame) then chop and extend the chassis to approx 120" wheelbase. As for the track rods etc so long as i can get longer ones (scrappie or made) then it will work right?

As for the bodywork i have no worries with this part besides mounting it to the frame as it has to be secure but mounting points hidden from view.

Does anyone have a pic of a kitcar frame and running gear (so just missing body) from the side view abd birds eye ( either photo or schematic)

Also are kit cars generally fwd or rwd?

quote:

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Originally posted by meathead316
I did say earlier that i dont want to build a car, what i meant was i dont want to get metal, build a frame, then get suspension and wheel hubs, add them on..........

I wouls rather, to save time and money, get a kit car, anything, locost dutton fugitive, as they are all quite similar in their sumplicity (ie just basic running gear on a frame) then chop and extend the chassis to approx 120" wheelbase. As for the track rods etc so long as i can get longer ones (scrappie or made) then it will work right?

As for the bodywork i have no worries with this part besides mounting it to the frame as it has to be secure but mounting points hidden from view.

Does anyone have a pic of a kitcar frame and running gear (so just missing body) from the side view abd birds eye ( either photo or schematic)

Also are kit cars generally fwd or rwd?

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Thanks, i too would have assumed a kit car to be rwd as its a sports/track car.

Good plan with the track rods. What about steering column? Can u make the rods/poles or watever they are called longer?

So to get the dimensions i want from a kit car and have it functional i need to:

Extend chassis (cut and weld)
Longer track rods
Longer steering column
Longer drive shaft
Extend plumbing for front brakes
Extend wires for head lights

Is that it?? Sounds pretty simple.... (In theory)

Also us a kit car road legal without a body shell?

I'd abandon the project before you start, I think you underestimate the cost and complexity of the project, saves wastin your hard earned on an abandoned project once you realise you are out of your depth.

Give up.... No way!

Yes its true i dont know how to achieve what i want right now, but thats why im asking questions, to broaden my knowledge!

From the sounds of it, it appears that you don't have much mechanical or engineering experience behind you. I'm not holding that against you as we all must start somewhere.

My advice would be to put th BM on hold and have go at building a kitcar (which someone else has done the hard work in designing) and put it through an iva. By the end of this, you'll have something you can sell and you'll have built up your knowledge and experience to have a go at the bm.

Even some of the best designed kit cars like the roadrunner sr2 can still be tricky to get through an iva if you don't what you're doing so you stand no chance with the bm being your first attempt (that's even if you'd ever get it finished).

You can ask all the questions you want but one thing you'll never gain is experience.

The above is good advice. I have learned more building a kit car than I did doing a degree. The kit car was cheaper, just.

It is indeed good advice, how much would it cost to build a kit car, from scratch?

Also whats the cheapest i could buy a complete kit car, that way i can feel what its like to drive one and be able to have a good nose around to see whats what, and it wud be great in the summer!

To build a kit car from scratch? £250 'apparently'.... Although that's what the very first book quoted, it's not possible anymore. I'm planning on getting a build done for under 5k, but that is only a plan and not a definite. To buy one you could probably spend about the same, although Locost/Haynes cars don't seem to hold their value unless they're absolutely mint or have some behemoth under the bonnet.

If you want to see how a kit car feels, rent yourself a Westfield or Caterham for the day. I think it's a couple of hundred quid, but it's better than thousands. Although that will limit the 'nosing about' you can do, Westfield won't want their car dismantled just so you can see how the steering works for example!

[Edited on 14/3/13 by Slimy38]

I'd suggest a Mev Exocet would be a good car for you to begin with. It's cheap, not compicated and uses an mx5 donor which the knowledge you gain would come in handy for you bm project.

After that I'd say eithr a gbs zero or a mev rocket. these are Much more of a proper build than the Exocet but also costs more to build.

quote:

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Originally posted by richardm6994
I'd suggest a Mev Exocet would be a good car for you to begin with. It's cheap, not compicated and uses an mx5 donor which the knowledge you gain would come in handy for you bm project.

After that I'd say eithr a gbs zero or a mev rocket. these are Much more of a proper build than the Exocet but also costs more to build.

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My advice, for what it's worth, is for you to build us a scale model of what you want. 1:4 scale would give you an idea of what you're taking on. Do that then come back and show us.

I agree that a too simple type wont teach me as much as something a little more involved and will bear this in mind. As for what ready built car to buy, how about the opposite, what NOT to buy and what to look out for. Ive seen some cheap ones on ebay (a dutton i think...) that looked like they could be fun to have a play with.

Also with kit cars am i right in thinking that you can not have a personalised plate on it?

Batman tot rod' kitcar' hot rod' go-cart' fibreglass toy car' custom' collectors | eBay

This is what you need matey.

Lol i have seen that already, is pretty cool, but too small.

Just wondering, what is the average wheelbase and track of a kit car?

Im interested just how you intend to build the bodywork? In my opinion getting the mechanical bits sorted on a project like this is an absolute doddle compared to producing some bodywork that looks good, and you seem to be coming from a long way back.

Cheers

Fred W B

Bodywork is simple compared to mechanics, its just cosmetic stuff (yes it has to be secure) and thats easy. Takes a lot of time to get right though, but it pays off.

As for the exact "how" i plan on gettin the mechanical side sorted, then building a metal frame that mounts to it, then on this frame build a batmobile shell. Starting with cardboard then covering the whole thing in glass matt and resin, finish with filler and paint. Pretty simple, but takes ages...

Anyone got wheelbase and track measurements?

I which case, you'd be better off doing as previously suggested, and start with a wagon chassis. Cardboard, fibreglass and filler will be heavy.

I have watched this thread with interest but it seems that so many0 basic0questions are coming through that the batmobile should be a long way down the list. - am by no means an expert but hav owned worked on and run about 19 kit cars over the years and have a job where - work with my hands in well equipped workshops and wouldnkt dream of taking on such a venture without planning it thoroughly. Lots of the questions here could be answered by buying a basic book on kit cars.
The glass fibre on cardboard body work I cankt wait to see, having tried a few small projects myself the only result has been increased respect for thgose wworking with the stuff professionally.
Sorry to dampen the party but - can' t see this working
(B
Mike

Have you done anything like this before? Seems you must have as you seem to think it not a big deal to whip up a body using your technique.

The answers to most of your questions will be on this site, for example:

wheelbase

track

We await developments with interest.

Cheers

Fred W B

[Edited on 16/3/13 by Fred W B]