No I am looking at a few track days further away I really dont want to drive my car, on track tyres, to the circuit if its a few hours away. Limited tools, limited comfort for the journey and no possibility of the wife and kid coming. I also have a company car with free diesel and want to use it!!

I have read this from the gov website which applies to me:

Licences held from 1 January 1997:

If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can drive either:
a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500 kilograms (kg) Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (with a combined weight of up to 4,250kg in total)

OR

a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)


Combined with this info from Pistonheads:

FOR B LICENCES
The Gov sites are not that good at explaining this so I have managed to find a simple way of determining whether a driver can tow something on a B only licence -

To tow over 750 kgs with a B licence you need to say NO to the following:-
Is the plated MAM of the trailer more than the UNLADEN/KERB/EMPTY weight of the towing vehicle?
Does the GVW of the towing vehicle plus the plated MAM of the trailer add up to more than 3500 kgs?
Is the ACTUAL weight of the empty trailer and its load more than the listed towing capacity?

Example of legally towing over 750 kgs with a B licence - made up figures but not that far from what can be found....

Towing vehicle -
Unladen/empty/kerb = 1500
GVW = 2000
Towing capacity = 1800

Trailer -
Unladen/empty = 800
MAM = 1500 (Perhaps originally a 2000 MAM but downplated by manufacturer so it conforms to B licence towing)

Load trailer with 700 max

Reasons it is legal for towing on a B licence -
The 1500 MAM of the trailer is not more than the 1500 unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle
The 2000 GVW of the towing vehicle plus the 1500 MAM of the trailer is not more than 3500
The towing capacity/actual weight being towed does not exceed 1800


I have a 59 plate Focus estate with a max tow weight of 1200kg. Essentially I need a light weight trailer with a Gross weight of 1200kg or less as this is the max tow weight of my car. The trailer itself needs to weigh less than about 600kg as my car weighs around 600kg.

As if this was not hard enough I want to hire one in the Dartford area cheaply!!!

I recon there may be trailers out there but I cant find any. There is no benifit of me doing my B+E licence becasue the tow weight of my car is only 1200kg.

The questions:
1) Can I use a trailer with a larger gross weight than the tow car even if the actual weight is under the max tow weight?
2) Does the above seem correct?
3) It seems wrong that I have a modern diesel car and cant tow a light weight car on a trailer but is this the case?

Thanks for the help peeps, sorry for the long post.

Biz

Bit of a journey GTI towing in potters bar!!

Use them a lot very good service

Oli

That is a long post.

Most small trailers that could carry your car will be significantly less than 600kg so I would not worry about that aspect.

Cannot help on trailer hire local to you, can you club together with someone and share a trailer and parking costs?

Or do what someone else has done on here, make a T frame and turn your car into a trailer, you could easily dismantle this and keep out the back.

Regards Mark

[Edited on 9/6/13 by mark chandler]

If you take the trailer test then you can tow with any trailer as long as the actual mass of the trailer is not more than the rated towing capacity.

If you do not then the maximum allowed mass of the trailer cannot be more than the unladen mass of the car.

So basically, you're limited to a trailer with a MAM of 1200kgs unless you take your trailer test, in which case you can tow any trailer as long as it isn't actually loaded above 1200kgs.

I spent ages trying to work out how I could tow legally on my B license by replating trailers and picking specific cars. Turned out the easiest way was to take the trailer test (a few hours training and the test cost £400).

quote:

---

Originally posted by mark chandler


Or do what someone else has done on here, make a T frame and turn your car into a trailer, you could easily dismantle this and keep out the back.

Regards Mark

[Edited on 9/6/13 by mark chandler]

---

Also check your company car insurance to check you are covered to tow a trailer.

quote:

---

Originally posted by number-1

quote:

---

Originally posted by mark chandler


Or do what someone else has done on here, make a T frame and turn your car into a trailer, you could easily dismantle this and keep out the back.

Regards Mark

[Edited on 9/6/13 by mark chandler]

---

Do you know where the post is on this....its something i could use myself.

---

the trailer weight is not the actual weight, it is always the maximum weight. So if the plate says 1500kg, that is what it is (even if the trailer weighs 250kg and is empty)

does this mean the combined weight of the trailer and car (on the trailer) must not exceed the weight of the tow car?
but a maximum combined weight of 3500kgs?
so if a 1750kg car you could tow 1750kg combined?
if so. most trailers and kits should be ok?

The car/trailer combo i have is perfect for this, as i have the post '97 licence.

My car is a volvo v50 with a kerb weight of 1500kg, a gross weight of 1950kg, and a maximum train weight of 3450kg. meaning i can have a trailer up 1500kg gross

My Ifor williams car trailer is gross weight of 1400kg, and an unladen weight of 400kg meaning i can put upto 1000kg on the trailer

Only problem is we are eventually looking to change to a bigger estate like a V70, but since it has a gross of around 2300kg i won't be able to legally pull my trailer until i take my trailer test as that will add upto 3700kg

Something that is reeeeally annoying is i also have a transit connect which has a higher gross weight than my volvo at 2080kg, but the maximum train weight is 2880kg, meaning that it can only bloody pull an 800kg trailer... grrrrr

The links above are discussing A frames and dollies, I said T frame to distinguish.

Okay, let me describe what I mean, imagine a car placed upon a a bed less trailer, so hitch affixed to 10' of 3" x 3" box which runs down the centre of the car to the balance point.

At the balance point across the cars width 5' of 3" x 3" box forming a T, this carries the braked trailer suspension units and wheels (brakes not required as total package loaded is under 750kg) just have some brackets so you can break this down.

You then just drop the car on top of this and strap down (you would probally need to positively locate so some bits of strip steel that bolt to the car to stop it floating around) the car is now a two wheel trailer, like a boat trailer really.

To accomadate sumps then just have rubber blocks packing out the car where it touches the frame, I would look at something like classic range rover bump stops.

In reality you would make this so it can break down at the join and store in the house, to fit the car assemble on the ground under the car without the wheels fitted, then jack up and bolt on the wheels, trailer board and off you go.

So box & http://www.towingandtrailers.co.uk/cgi-bin/trolleyed_public.cgi?action=showprod_TK055SU10M&category=302 add another £150 for braked, which would be my preference.

Or cut down something like this Galvanised Roller Boat Trailer With Winch Catherdral Dory Flat Bottom Speed Boat | eBay

Regards Mark

[Edited on 10/6/13 by mark chandler]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mark chandler

In reality you would make this so it can break down at the join and store in the house, to fit the car assemble on the ground under the car without the wheels fitted, then jack up and bolt on the wheels, trailer board and off you go.

So box & http://www.towingandtrailers.co.uk/cgi-bin/trolleyed_public.cgi?action=showprod_TK055SU10M&category=302 add another £150 for braked, which would be my preference.

Regards Mark

[Edited on 10/6/13 by mark chandler]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by spiderman
Also check your company car insurance to check you are covered to tow a trailer.

---

I have struggled with this issue of late. The problem is the only trailer that can be used is a single axle or a twin axle that is plated to a MAM of around 1300kg because that's usually the max on a single axle. Now the problem is that most hire places have twin axle 2500kg MAM trailers so as not to limit their business opportunities. You will struggle to find a company that will meet your needs as I did, the only options are;

1. Borrow a small trailer.
2. Get some one to come with you like your parents, they can sit in the passenger seat as long as you use 'L' plates and tell your insurance company, I even know people using their grandparents with a driving license!
3. By a trailer or hire a small transporter truck.

But now the law has changed again from Jan this year which has scrapped all this MAM stuff and as long as you don't exceed 3500kg now its free rein what a bloody con!

Wayne mate you should of asked me about the trailer, I hired one from a place in old bexley, £50 a day for a twin axle braked unit. Ill try and remember what they were called. The garage said to me that I was on the limit of towing weight, us our little 1600 diesels may puff out! It's only South Wales so not a big drive mate!

I love that I passed 4 months before that cut off date. The back of my license is full to bursting without having done more than pass a normal test

See page 2 in this link
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=169595&page=2

plus my pics in my archive.

quote:

---

Originally posted by number-1

quote:

---

Originally posted by mark chandler


Or do what someone else has done on here, make a T frame and turn your car into a trailer, you could easily dismantle this and keep out the back.

Regards Mark

[Edited on 9/6/13 by mark chandler]

---

Do you know where the post is on this....its something i could use myself.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Slimy38

quote:

---

Originally posted by mark chandler

In reality you would make this so it can break down at the join and store in the house, to fit the car assemble on the ground under the car without the wheels fitted, then jack up and bolt on the wheels, trailer board and off you go.

So box & http://www.towingandtrailers.co.uk/cgi-bin/trolleyed_public.cgi?action=showprod_TK055SU10M&category=302 add another £150 for braked, which would be my preference.

Regards Mark

[Edited on 10/6/13 by mark chandler]

---

That seems a whole load of faff at the destination though? But I have to admit I'm not properly visualising it. For example, By the sounds of it the front of the car would be resting on the centre bar, but what would stop it from sliding off at the first corner? Or is that the strip steel you mentioned?

I don't suppose you could offer a Google image link so I could understand your idea? 'A picture paints a thousand words' and all that?

I have a feeling last time I had my bike towed they used something similar to what you're describing, but obviously a bike has a 'centre' which makes the t frame work better.

[Edited on 10/6/13 by Slimy38]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by daniel mason
does this mean the combined weight of the trailer and car (on the trailer) must not exceed the weight of the tow car?
but a maximum combined weight of 3500kgs?
so if a 1750kg car you could tow 1750kg combined?
if so. most trailers and kits should be ok?

---

Pictures ^^^

quote:

---

Originally posted by Neadles

But now the law has changed again from Jan this year which has scrapped all this MAM stuff and as long as you don't exceed 3500kg now its free rein what a bloody con!

---

After a less tired re read of this I think a few of ypu may be right in that I can actually tow upto the ford focus kerb weight.

Regardless of the MAM weight as it will be over 750kg.

So I am now thinkibg that I can use any trailer as long as trailer weight+car weight does not exceed kerb or tow weight. Which it hopefully wont.

only if you changed the plate on the trailer so it quoted a MAM thet was less than the tow car


as its all worked out on the plated MAM, not whats on the trailer at that moment in time
so you need a trailer with a plate showing a MAM < the tow vehicle kerb weight



so if you want to tow over 750kg MAM you need to satisfy the following:

MAM trailer <= kerb weight of tow vehicle AND MAM trailer + MAM tow Vehicle <= 3500kg


also regardless of the type/size of trailer you can't exceed the tow vehicles braked or unbraked towing limits
i.e. it might only be a 750kg trailer, but if the car is only rated for 400kg unbraked - then the trailer must have brakes!



[Edited on 10/6/2013 by mcerd1]

The LAW says you (bi22le) can tow a braked trailer up to the vehicle kerb weight (as long as it doesn't exceed 3500Kg) - this is MAX and with no towing experience you would be mad to go over 80% of kerb weight IMHO (particularly with a single axle trailer).

The vehicle max towing weight (which as I found out recently, is actually calculated from it's ability to pull away on an incline) is the manufacturers guide.

If you have an accident in your Focus Estate whilst towing over 1200Kg you won't be insured - end of.

Also - most insurance only covers trailers and contents third party - so if YOU crash it, your Locost (for example) won't be covered by your towing vehicles insurance.

[Edited on 10/6/13 by scimjim]

[Edited on 10/6/13 by scimjim]

quote:

---

Originally posted by scimjim
The vehicle max towing weight (which as I found out recently, is actually calculated from it's ability to pull away on an incline) is the manufacturers guide.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcerd1

quote:

---

Originally posted by scimjim
The vehicle max towing weight (which as I found out recently, is actually calculated from it's ability to pull away on an incline) is the manufacturers guide.

---

have you got any links to quoted figures for this ? - I've never managed to find definate limits for my cars...

---

Yeah the max towing weight on the old rangerovers was quoted as over 4.5T IIRC due to the low range box.

I've almost fallen foul of this law, at no point did I think to check in case I couldn't tow something when I first passed my test (about a month after the law changed to suit the EU), so I spent a large part of my youth towing a 2T boat (nearly 28ft long on the trailer) about in a rangerover (single axle) and latterly a 2.3T boat on a double axle homebuilt trailer, and a 30ft caravan. Never had a problem, never got pulled, never even got glanced at twice on the motorway. Only in later years did I check up (forced by work) and found that I'd been towing illegally for years.

If I had crashed I've have been pretty much stuffed.

I wrote to my MP to find out why this law and testing was introduced, because the test and instruction appears to do nothing but check the absolute bare essential skills and knowledge that I'd say were a bare minimum for towing ANY trailer, let alone a large one. They do nothing to prepare someone for towing a trailer that is a significant percentage of their vehicle mass or significant length. When you see folk battering down the outside lane with a 250kg garden trailer at 90mph it does make you wonder why everyone isn't forced to take a test, no no-one and simply rely on the police pulling folk as they do now.

What happena if the trailer is home made or has no plate to state MAM?

as long as it was made before 29 Oct 2012 you're okay - except you don't know what it can safely carry

[Edited on 10/6/13 by scimjim]

quote:

---

Originally posted by scimjim

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcerd1

quote:

---

Originally posted by scimjim
The vehicle max towing weight (which as I found out recently, is actually calculated from it's ability to pull away on an incline) is the manufacturers guide.

---

have you got any links to quoted figures for this ? - I've never managed to find definate limits for my cars...

---

it's in the handbooks of any modern - sites like this also show them: http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp or http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/ford/focus/towing-weight-limit/

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcerd1

quote:

---

Originally posted by scimjim

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcerd1

quote:

---

Originally posted by scimjim
The vehicle max towing weight (which as I found out recently, is actually calculated from it's ability to pull away on an incline) is the manufacturers guide.

---

have you got any links to quoted figures for this ? - I've never managed to find definate limits for my cars...

---

it's in the handbooks of any modern - sites like this also show them: http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp or http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/ford/focus/towing-weight-limit/

---

those are far too new for me

and my old focus (98-01 zetec 1.8) says nothing in the handbook
(I think get a supplement with the overpriced towbar)

but even when I've seen qouted figures elsewhere its only ever braked limits - any ideas what the unbraked limit would be ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by scimjim
you can imagine the problem I have with a 1968 Scimitar GTE then

---

The law says I can tow up to the kerb weight of the car (never mind what some underpaid and overworked Civil Servant has written on the Gov website).

quote:

---

Originally posted by scimjim
The law says I can tow up to the kerb weight of the car (never mind what some underpaid and overworked Civil Servant has written on the Gov website).

---

car trailor | eBay

rough but cheap

Car VIN plates did not have to declare a train weight until 1998 (I think it was) so you can do what you like with your GTE, they make very good tow cars BTW

Which is why I could tow my little car on trailer behind my XK8 as it was produced in 1997, later cars you could not.

this is all very confusing to me.
i passed my test in 1999
have a volvo s60 D5 which is quoted at 1552 kgs kerb weight
my trailer is a brian james twin axle (both axles braked) clubman with hydraulic tiltbed.
unladen weight 500kgs
max gross 2000kgs
fireblade race fury aprox 450kgs

am i right in thinking the unladen weight (500kg) + kit car (450kg) is ok for me to tow as i have 1552kg kerb on the volvo?
or is it the max gross at 2000kg + 450kg fury +1552kg kerb? as thats over 4000kgs and trailer is over kerb weight!

quote:

---

Originally posted by daniel mason
this is all very confusing to me.
i passed my test in 1999
have a volvo s60 D5 which is quoted at 1552 kgs kerb weight
my trailer is a brian james twin axle (both axles braked) clubman with hydraulic tiltbed.
unladen weight 500kgs
max gross 2000kgs
fireblade race fury aprox 450kgs

am i right in thinking the unladen weight (500kg) + kit car (450kg) is ok for me to tow as i have 1552kg kerb on the volvo?
or is it the max gross at 2000kg + 450kg fury +1552kg kerb? as thats over 4000kgs and trailer is over kerb weight!

---

thanks.i was worried that the 1552 kerb + the 2000 max gross would be 3552kg!

quote:

---

Originally posted by daniel mason
thanks.i was worried that the 1552 kerb + the 2000 max gross would be 3552kg!

---

bugger - he's right, it's not the weight of the load anymore, it's the plated MAM of the trailer. ie you *could* carry a car weighing 1500Kg on that trailer but it would exceed the kerb weight of the Volvo, exceed the towing limit of the Volvo and exceed your licence entitlement - therefore, you're not trusted to only carry a load that would be safe according to the car and trailer manufacturers

[Edited on 10/6/13 by scimjim]

by 2kg?

52kg? Chances are, you'll never get stopped but if you had an accident they'd check - and you'd be uninsured

sorry meant 52kg
but surely th gross of trailer at 2000kgs is 500kgs heavier than cars cerb anyway? even though its 500kg unladen?

quote:

---

Originally posted by daniel mason
sorry meant 52kg
but surely th gross of trailer at 2000kgs is 500kgs heavier than cars cerb anyway? even though its 500kg unladen?

---

so how do i get round it then? can you get the trailers re-stamped to say 1350kg - 1400kg si it comes ibn at under 3500kgs?

Yes - I was reading up on it last night and apparently it's becoming more popular to derate your existing trailer. You may need to go to Brian James though?

quote:

---

Originally posted by daniel mason
so how do i get round it then? can you get the trailers re-stamped to say 1350kg - 1400kg si it comes ibn at under 3500kgs?

---

quote:

---

What happena if the trailer is home made or has no plate to state MAM?

---

in the 1st post it says max 4250 kg , if trailer is max 750 kg ?

i know im ok since i passed in 89 , just seems to be very long winded.....

quote:

---

Originally posted by Volvorsport
in the 1st post it says max 4250 kg , if trailer is max 750 kg ?

---

well this guy says theres no regulation limiting the mileage using this dolly.....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251286585035&ssPageName=ADME:X:eRTM:GB:1123

Hi,

I have b+e on my license, so what can I pull?