For the non-scrubs fans, this is a hairmet...
For me, the MNR is one of the prettier kits... until they go and put those flipping great scaffolding pieces on the back of them!
I know that they're thinking about our safety, but why do they have to be SO much taller than all the other manufacturers?
And then there's this monstrosity... a really nice car with a full cage that can touch the sky! Why oh why? Surely a full cage can be
lower than that???
LINKY
That's bonkers, I know it's good practise to have it a little above a helmeted head but you could fit a hairmet under that.
For the non-scrubs fans, this is a hairmet...
That doesnt even look like its made from the correct diameter to make it suitably strong. Coupled with the leverage the height would give the ground
if it was struck at speed it would look like it would just fold up!
I can only hope to assume this was just a customer who wanted (insisted) on somthing so fuggly and functionally less safe.
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
For me, the MNR is one of the prettier kits... until they go and put those flipping great scaffolding pieces on the back of them!
I know that they're thinking about our safety, but why do they have to be SO much taller than all the other manufacturers?
And then there's this monstrosity... a really nice car with a full cage that can touch the sky! Why oh why? Surely a full cage can be lower than that???
LINKY
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Perhaps that one was built by a very tall person?
I agree that big cages really spoil the looks of a 7, not an issue for a track car but I doubt I'd choose to have a full cage for a road car.
There's a few Mnrs kicking around with tall cages on so I dont think it's a customer one off.
If you look at the roadrunner sr2 I think that looks like a lower sleeker option which looks much better.
quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
There's a few Mnrs kicking around with tall cages on so I dont think it's a customer one off.
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
For me, the MNR is one of the prettier kits... until they go and put those flipping great scaffolding pieces on the back of them!
I know that they're thinking about our safety, but why do they have to be SO much taller than all the other manufacturers?
And then there's this monstrosity... a really nice car with a full cage that can touch the sky! Why oh why? Surely a full cage can be lower than that???
LINKY
Procomp goes high at the back and low at the front. Looks much better to my eye. Of course with an approved cage rather than a blue book MSA drawing
complaint cage you can do that kind of thing and still race.
More detailed:
http://www.procomp.co.uk/newimages/detailed_illustrations/n50.jpg
Yes but I guess it's a standard option from mnr because there are a few knocking about.
quote:
Originally posted by iank
Procomp goes high at the back and low at the front. Looks much better to my eye. Of course with an approved cage rather than a blue book MSA drawing complaint cage you can do that kind of thing and still race.
At MNR when you order a kit, Chris sits you on a chair and measures you from seat base to top of head, then the roll bar height is worked out to
ensure you dont drag your nut along the ground if you flip over..
Its all about safety.
The blue-book states that you have to set the cage height at 50mm above the height of the drivers helmet, and in such a way that any forward tubes
must go forward without a bend to the highest hard point on the chassis. That is the safety zone that is protected if you go on to your lid.
There are rules about crossing the tubes at the back of the cage to support it, as well as the size of the plates and the tube to plate mounting
rules,
IIRC, the book even talks about what good welding should look like on the cage, and advises you to walk away from bird-shit.
Frankly i think all this metalwork seriously detracts from the looks of a 7.
Roll over bars and cages are safe and sensible for racing and track use but I think Lotus got the looks pretty much spot on with the road going series
2 and series 3 Super 7 which had no rollover bar and looked much more elgant and purposeful for it.
For a road car there is no requirement to have a roll over bar, it's not compulsory, it's not an MOT requirement so why on earth bother with
the ugly scafolding. It just looks like health and safety gone mad.
Saying nothing 
quote:
Originally posted by Not Anumber
Frankly i think all this metalwork seriously detracts from the looks of a 7.
Roll over bars and cages are safe and sensible for racing and track use but I think Lotus got the looks pretty much spot on with the road going series 2 and series 3 Super 7 which had no rollover bar and looked much more elgant and purposeful for it.
For a road car there is no requirement to have a roll over bar, it's not compulsory, it's not an MOT requirement so why on earth bother with the ugly scafolding. It just looks like health and safety gone mad.
Also, find out what quality the steel is. I went for T45, quite expensive and difficult to bend, but great to weld.
I know from my grass-tracking mates that the rules state mild steel cages only, even though they would (if allowed) fit T45 steel cages at the same
wall thickness. T45 is way more strong than mild steel, so for these guys it would mean a weight saving for similar if not more strength.
quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by Not Anumber
Frankly i think all this metalwork seriously detracts from the looks of a 7.
Roll over bars and cages are safe and sensible for racing and track use but I think Lotus got the looks pretty much spot on with the road going series 2 and series 3 Super 7 which had no rollover bar and looked much more elgant and purposeful for it.
For a road car there is no requirement to have a roll over bar, it's not compulsory, it's not an MOT requirement so why on earth bother with the ugly scafolding. It just looks like health and safety gone mad.
Maybe people want to avoid ending their days in a wheelchair being fed with a tube and having someone wipe their arse for them?
quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
Also, find out what quality the steel is. I went for T45, quite expensive and difficult to bend, but great to weld.
I know from my grass-tracking mates that the rules state mild steel cages only, even though they would (if allowed) fit T45 steel cages at the same wall thickness. T45 is way more strong than mild steel, so for these guys it would mean a weight saving for similar if not more strength.
I don't think this thread was debating the need for safety I think we are all grown up to accept rollover protection is a neccessity. It was more about design and 'packaging' to suit the design of the 7, there are many ways to design a safe car without it looking like the car had crashed into a local scaffolding yard.
£50 a metre trade I was paying, not including the 3 hours time it took us to measure, cut and bend just to get the hoop right.
Saying that, you put an off it in the vice and smack it with a two pound lumper and you can tell the difference, once your hand stops vibrating.
It's the best you can do. Mandated for NASCAR if I'm right. It also needs the right rod for welding properly. Mild rods leave the weld pool
too brittle.
quote:
Originally posted by PhillipM
quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
Alsoq, find out what quality the steel is. I went for T45, quite expensive and difficult to bend, but great to weld.
I know from my grass-tracking mates that the rules state mild steel cages only, even though they would (if allowed) fit T45 steel cages at the same wall thickness. T45 is way more strong than mild steel, so for these guys it would mean a weight saving for similar if not more strength.
Our entire frame is T45, not cheap though!
Some of these cages look downright scary, what's with all the random bends in the middle of the tubes?!
A cage is only strong as a triangulated structure, same as a chassis, so sticking extra bends in and making it a nice, easily foldable parallelogram is not exact the best idea...
quote:
Originally posted by PhillipM
Our entire frame is T45, not cheap though!
Some of these cages look downright scary, what's with all the random bends in the middle of the tubes?!
A cage is only strong as a triangulated structure, same as a chassis, so sticking extra bends in and making it a nice, easily foldable parallelogram is not exact the best idea...
Oops... missed the part about the cage being made for a 6'8" driver. My bad!
That said, the general sentiment regarding the 'normal' height of an MNR's roll-over protection still stands... they're feckin
huge and often spoil the looks of their cars!
Well mines fine only about 3inch above my head. 
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A triange will still collapse on impact if the force is enough. Traingles are great for transmitting intended forces, but a crash can happen at pretty much any angle and any speed and lots of force, so as long as the bends arent in the key structure (front and rear roll bar) they arent as disasterous as you may think.
quote:
Originally posted by PhillipM
I'll take a roll cage that transmits forces away from me over one that folds at the joints like a hinge any day of the week. Even if part of it bends or kinks from an impact, if the rest is properly triangulated everywhere it will still prevent the cage folding and transmit force away from the damaged area.
Perhaps, but the bends in your roof bars mean the front windscreen can fold down flat if it's hit longitudinally.
Also means if it has a gentle roll the leverage from the top bars will probably tweak the chassis into a banana shape.
Both of which I've seen happen with similar designs.
[Edited on 9/8/13 by PhillipM]
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Oops... missed the part about the cage being made for a 6'8" driver. My bad!
That said, the general sentiment regarding the 'normal' height of an MNR's roll-over protection still stands... they're feckin huge and often spoil the looks of their cars!
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Oops... missed the part about the cage being made for a 6'8" driver. My bad!
That said, the general sentiment regarding the 'normal' height of an MNR's roll-over protection still stands... they're feckin huge and often spoil the looks of their cars!
Even at 6'8" his head should rest on the err! head rest. The height of that cage would indicate that the top of the head rest would be about shoulder height, and the harness slots half way down his back! I think?
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Oops... missed the part about the cage being made for a 6'8" driver. My bad!
That said, the general sentiment regarding the 'normal' height of an MNR's roll-over protection still stands... they're feckin huge and often spoil the looks of their cars!
Even at 6'8" his head should rest on the err! head rest. The height of that cage would indicate that the top of the head rest would be about shoulder height, and the harness slots half way down his back! I think?
Previous owner must have been a foreign religious bloke:
Maybe he had really big hair.
I think that was BigLee's car wasn't it?
There not all infeasibly large! I have had comments that mine is to low, but I have 4" clearance above my head and the front cross bar does not
obscure my view, its perfect for me as it was made to measure. For the record I'm 5'11".
[img]
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here's the cage i've built on my raw striker track car :-)
Description
quote:
Originally posted by cjwood23
I think that was BigLee's car wasn't it?
No doubting it's a pretty car... despite the climbing frame perched on top!
That car was indeed built by me! And yes I am 6' 8" The cage was chosen to actually reduce the height of the rear rollover, as without it,
the rear rollover would've been roughly 4 inches higher to clear my head (in helmet) and meet the front edge of the engine. The heights were all
set by MNR to be safe as people have previously said.
However, I am totally in agreement with Scootz that the MNR cages do look huge, and in the case of my car, utterly massive. I hated it. But there
isn't much option for someone this tall. Same as the seats. The head rest barely met the bottom of my neck, and the harness was as long as
possible to go up and over my shoulders, but these are just sacrifices you make when you have to duck under most door frames. It was either that, or I
just didn't build it. Tom who bought the car from me was my opposite as far as build goes. Lovely bloke and I know he's looked after it.
Lee
Not having a large roll over hoop was one of the reasons I went for a full cage - more safety being the primary reason.
I think mine is much more in proportion to the car - but I'm not 6' 8"
Description
quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
Not having a large roll over hoop was one of the reasons I went for a full cage - more safety being the primary reason.
I think mine is much more in proportion to the car - but I'm not 6' 8"
Description
Yup... that looks a lot better!