Board logo

E36 MOT failure?
dhutch - 29/11/13 at 02:27 PM

Just rolled the car in for its MOT, and will I was open to spending a bit on getting it though as its the first one I have put it though, its come back with a list as long as your arm.

Car isnt worth a lot but equally its straight, runs well, and I have become quite attached, hence the dilema.


Failed on:
Emissions, Lamba and CO
Front Ball Joints (one bad, one just behind, probably needs welding in as look in wishbones apprently)
One anti roll bar joint/arm
One trackrod end gator (end is ok, just split gator)
Front/Rear brakepipes
Rear subframe bushes (bigish job?)
Front offside caliper binding a bit*
Hand brake, both sides*
Headlight Aim
One Sidelight

Advisory's on:
Exhaust Manifold Leak (proberbal cause of the lambda)*
Rear brakepipes to and from flexies
Front suspension lolipop bushes (not sure where these are yet, top, bottom?)
Aux Belt cracked* , tensionor wining*
Rear diff bushes
Engine oil Leak*
Offside rear tyre*
Offside front brake pad*
Flat battery*

* = known about before test

sdh2903 - 29/11/13 at 02:40 PM

It depends if your going to keep it and get your moneys worth. I've done worse lists than that on cars i've become attached to.

One thing about bmw's is most parts are cheap as chips and for more expensive stuff like the manifolds are abundant in the breakers yards.

All of that stuff on the fail list except the emissions are classic bmw wear items, brake lines and bushes especially. The brake lines can be fiddly but if you've got the tools its only a £15 fix.

I've never had a bmw with a decent handbrake, replace the shoes and clean up the inner drum and jobs a gooden, ish!

Never done the rear bushes on an e36 so can't comment. But the rest is easy stuff.

dhutch - 29/11/13 at 02:50 PM

The manifold leak is between the down pipes and the manifold, but the issue is if you try to move it the bolts shear, then its either drill out or replace the manifold, hoping you dont shear those bolts when removing it... hence the prevous owner doing the job with mastic and putty which has since failed.

Caliper might free up, it has been stood for 6months?
CO might just be lack of running as because the flat battery meant it wasnt running very well.

All the jobs, except maybe the rear subframe mounts and loose-fitting balljoints are I guess smallish items but the costs/time add up.
Lord only knows what they looked at during the last MOT, i want to go back there!

Replaced one of the two shoes and have the second ones to do the other side.



I slightly wish it was a 318i not a 316i as it does struggle towing the kitcar, and the paints loosing its clear coat in places, girlfreind doesnt thing too much of it, but otherwise I see no reason not to keep it another year or two or longer.



Think im going to take it to a local garage bloke and get him to give my a broken down cost of getting it through.



Daniel



[Edited on 29/11/2013 by dhutch]

sdh2903 - 29/11/13 at 03:23 PM

If its garage work then it wont be worth it, I was quoted 175 for the rear brake lines alone at a local garage. For me it would only be worth it if its DIY work.

With regards the caliper, a good strip and clean and grease of the sliders should sort it.

britishtrident - 30/11/13 at 12:26 AM

Nothing major just the result of cumulative lack of maintanance and old age.
The subframe bush is a lot easier with the right tool.

Most that list is minor, replace the track rod end, if you just fit a gaitor you will end up fitting a new track rod end next year.
If the car has rear discs the handbrake probably needs the disc-drum removed the shoes and drum surface cleaned up and the brake shoes directly adjusted and the cable tension set.

The biggest problem with the brakes might be bleeding the brakes as the nipples are likely to be seized,

dhutch - 2/12/13 at 04:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
If its garage work then it wont be worth it.
The issue is, like everything else, time is money!

dhutch - 2/12/13 at 04:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Nothing major just the result of cumulative lack of maintanance and old age.

The subframe bush is a lot easier with the right tool.

Most that list is minor, replace the track rod end, if you just fit a gaitor you will end up fitting a new track rod end next year.

If the car has rear discs the handbrake probably needs the disc-drum removed the shoes and drum surface cleaned up and the brake shoes directly adjusted and the cable tension set.

The biggest problem with the brakes might be bleeding the brakes as the nipples are likely to be seized,

Im going to get a breakdown of parts and labour for each area and take it from there.

Hopefully things like the front caliper, handbrake (drums on rear, fwiw) will free up, clean up, etc with a bit of TLC and fettling, and if the manifold leak is resolved (all be that, with more putty and sealent) and its got warm the emissions will come good.

That the leaves
- Ball joints
- Rear subframe bushes
- Trackrod end
- Anti roll bar link
- Brakelines

Gahh, even thats a fiar list!

Then for next year
- Front suspension bushes
- Diff mount bushes


Will google a bit more about front ball joints being loose in the wishbones!


Daniel

dhutch - 5/12/13 at 11:54 AM

Well.

Quote back from the local bmw breakers come farm based bmw mechanic:

£245 parts, £495 in total, of which 140 is a pair of front arms, 40 is sub frame bushes, 25 trackrod end, 20 anti rollbar link and he will chuck an second hand alternator on it.

Personally I think that's probably a fair price, although I've just looked on ebay and appear to be able to get front arms at £60/75 a pair.
- I paid £650 for the car.
- Fixed its worth maybe £850?
- MOT failure its worth maybe £200?

Obviously the E36 is starting to get slightly rare, so appears to be holding value, and there is a demand for the compact to us in the 'compact cup' as well as for the whole drifting scene.

Very torn really.

Not mad any easier by the fact that all along I wanted the 318 compact not the 316, which is very nice, but a bit gutless for towing the kitcar.


Daniel

britishtrident - 5/12/13 at 01:36 PM

Beware cheap ebay suspension parts some of them look well made but the quality is crap, I have seen wishbones, track rod ends and anti-rollbar links that are falling to pieces in less than a years use.

Since Quinton Hazel went to the wall the problem of shoddy parts has become worse, always look for OEM brands.

dhutch - 11/12/13 at 08:28 AM

Well after £30 labour to fix the exhuast leak, its in for its emissions test, before I comit to the rest of it.

Occured to me the fuel in the tank is also 6months old which is not ideal, 3/4 full as well, so I have put 20L of super on top of that to brim it and we shall see!

Daniel

dhutch - 11/12/13 at 04:53 PM

And it passed!

maccavvy - 15/12/13 at 10:48 PM

quote:

Front Ball Joints (one bad, one just behind, probably needs welding in as look in wishbones apprently)
One anti roll bar joint/arm
One trackrod end gator (end is ok, just split gator)
Front/Rear brakepipes
Rear subframe bushes (bigish job?)
Front offside caliper binding a bit*
Hand brake, both sides*
Headlight Aim
One Sidelight

Advisory's on:
Exhaust Manifold Leak (proberbal cause of the lambda)*
Rear brakepipes to and from flexies
Front suspension lolipop bushes (not sure where these are yet, top, bottom?)
Aux Belt cracked* , tensionor wining*
Rear diff bushes
Engine oil Leak*
Offside rear tyre*
Offside front brake pad*
Flat battery*

* = known about before test


Ive been into bmws for a while now and had a mag featured e36 so I know the score with these.
As for ball joints fit e30 arms,straight fit and fit new poly lollipop bushes at the same time youll never have to touch em again.
track rod ends are cheap and easy to fit.
front to rear brake pipes can involve dropping the tank or split and join them or reroute them
subframe bushes can be a pain, it may involve dropping the rear end,never heard of them being bad enough to fail mot,unless he means rear trailing arm bushes ,id check which bushes first,theres many on a e36.
Caliper can be easily stripped and rebuild kits easily available ,cheap 2nd hand too
Hand brake will involve removal of rear calipers and discs. worst case is locating pins have come through back plate.but more likely strip clean and adjust correctly.

Manifold leak could be to head or to downpipes ,easily fixed if bolts come free
rear brakepipes cheap fix as very short
Lolipop bushes mentioned above
belt cheap swap, tensioners eaily available from gsf/ecp
diff bushes ..depends which one/s
oil leak is commonly rocker cover .

hope that helps

coozer - 15/12/13 at 10:52 PM

What the hells a flat battery got to do with an MOT??

morcus - 15/12/13 at 11:43 PM

As above, and does the * mean its an advisory on the previous MOT test and they think it's had one for a whole year?

britishtrident - 16/12/13 at 10:28 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
What the hells a flat battery got to do with an MOT??


Quite a bit it could result in the station being unable to complete the test they would been within their rights to issue a VT30 Refusal to Test on the grounds: " The vehicle is not fit to be driven when necessary to complete the test because of a lack of fuel, or oil, or for any other reason

It is also worth keeping in mind that a battery or charging problem will effect the injection system, ABS and lighting.

dhutch - 16/12/13 at 12:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by maccavvy
Ive been into bmws for a while now and had a mag featured e36 so I know the score with these.
As for ball joints fit e30 arms,straight fit and fit new poly lollipop bushes at the same time youll never have to touch em again.
track rod ends are cheap and easy to fit.
front to rear brake pipes can involve dropping the tank or split and join them or reroute them
subframe bushes can be a pain, it may involve dropping the rear end,never heard of them being bad enough to fail mot,unless he means rear trailing arm bushes ,id check which bushes first,theres many on a e36.
Caliper can be easily stripped and rebuild kits easily available ,cheap 2nd hand too
Hand brake will involve removal of rear calipers and discs. worst case is locating pins have come through back plate.but more likely strip clean and adjust correctly.

Manifold leak could be to head or to downpipes ,easily fixed if bolts come free
rear brakepipes cheap fix as very short
Lolipop bushes mentioned above
belt cheap swap, tensioners eaily available from gsf/ecp
diff bushes ..depends which one/s
oil leak is commonly rocker cover .

hope that helps

Thanks for the comments. The work has now been done, and Im expecting the MOT results this afternoon.
- Why would you fit E30 front arms not E36? They are replaced now as said, but for my interest.
- Subframe bushes have been done, with rear dropped as far as I know, was not the trailing arms.
- Caliper freed up fine with a it of cleaning of the guides etc, presumably due to sitting for 6 months.
- Handbrake is still far from the greatest, but has had new shoes in the second side (i had done one before). It drums on rear.
- Downpipe was manifold to down pipe, solved with a new gasket, as old was shot to bits. Minor weap around head was left.
- Lolipops, should maybe have done it while I was off, but it wasnt in the end.
- Belt/tentioner hass been left. If it fails and leaves me standand I will consider myself an fool, but in the mean time it is actually about £50 in bits....
- Diff bush was left, dont know anything about it, but will look under the car once its back with me.
- Oil leak appears to be from the HG, which was first documented about 5 years ago. We're talking a egg cup full in 6months but did have chance to clean it down so it doesnt lok great. Rust proofing!

quote:
Originally posted by morcus
...does the * mean its an advisory on the previous MOT test and they think it's had one for a whole year?

No, it means that for whatever reason I was aware of it proir to submiting it for test.


Drove it to the test last night, man I had forgotten how little power its got. Very drivable but not fast on the acceleration!


Daniel

sdh2903 - 16/12/13 at 01:35 PM

What engine is in the car? If it's an m43 They have a common issue with the seal between the oil filter housing and the engine causing oil leak. Gasket plus 2 o rings from bmw is only 8 quid and an hour or so to change. Google brings up loads of guides.

dhutch - 17/12/13 at 10:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
What engine is in the car?
Yes, its an M43B16. I have a look but to be honest its such a small weep its just not even made it onto the list of things I might look at, oil level on the dipstick is rock solid and its doesnt even leave anything on the drive.

However, the important new is!

LAST NIGHT IT PASSED ITS MOT.

Tax bought, drove it work today, happy days.

£40 MOT Test
£75 Replacement alternator and belt, exhaust gasket fitting.
£10 Emissions test
£500 Everything else to get it though, inc the two front arms, rear subframe bushes, and fitting.
£0 Free retest even though it was outside 10 days in recompense for alternator.

So all up, £626!

Only £24 less than I paid for the car a year ago with 8months test on it, but I dont have to look for a new one, wouldnt have got anything other than £100 for weighing it in if I had given up on it, and another E36 kept on the road.

I now have about 10 months to decide what to do for next year....

Remaining advisories where
- The tyre, which I have a whole second set of.
- The engine oil leak, as above as this was left.
- The rest of the brakelines that where not changed.
- Exhaust leak has gone to minor leak (manifold to head)
- Rear drum 'slightly dragging' has been added, proberbly the new shoes wearing in the old drum.
- Not sure where the diff bush went, maybe he did it with subframe.

Happy.


Daniel

[Edited on 17/12/2013 by dhutch]

britishtrident - 17/12/13 at 04:46 PM

I don't know if the E36 has exactly the same linkage but on the R-75 the handbrake cable compensator/balance bar the bridges the two cables stretches when the handbrake is pulled on hard. There are a number of mods on the internet forums for this problem most of which are pretty rough & ready but I have modified two cars using a rose joint to link the compensator to the handbrake cable and found it makes a massive difference.

dhutch - 18/12/13 at 12:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
I don't know if the E36 has exactly the same linkage but on the R-75 the handbrake cable compensator/balance bar the bridges the two cables stretches when the handbrake is pulled on hard. There are a number of mods on the internet forums for this problem most of which are pretty rough & ready but I have modified two cars using a rose joint to link the compensator to the handbrake cable and found it makes a massive difference.

I thought an R-27 was a bike... (or are you talking about the R27 Clio?).

Im going to have a full inspection of handbrake system at some point, its got its MOT now, and holds ok when parked, but is a long way from great or being much use for even local Autotests which it gets jused for from time to time when not in the kitcar).

As far as I can tell BMW's in general have appalling reputation for their handbrakes, but as mine is on full drums at the back, not disks with the tiny handbrake shoes on the inside as most us, there is more scope for them actaully working.

To loosely quote the bmw bloke who did the work 'I think the E36 compact is about the only BMW I have ever been able to do even a half plausable handbrake turning, even on mud of gravel'


Daniel

prawnabie - 18/12/13 at 06:23 PM

He means Rover 75 I pressume

dhutch - 18/12/13 at 07:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by prawnabie
He means Rover 75 I pressume

Or that!