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No More Tax Discs
slingshot2000 - 5/12/13 at 08:47 AM

It has just been announced that from next October it will no longer be a legal requirement to display a valid Tax Disc. Likely to be another result of the cut backs at the DVLA.

Regards
Jon

pekwah1 - 5/12/13 at 08:55 AM

Well i don't disagree with this.
It's not like we display a valid MOT or Insurance sign on our cars.....

steve m - 5/12/13 at 09:00 AM

You are right, but in theory if a car has a Tax disc, it had to have an mot and insurance to get it,
but still does not mean the car is actually legal

It will mean more un roadworthy illegal cars on the road with no insurance

So is it the way forward?

matt_gsxr - 5/12/13 at 09:09 AM

I guess the positives, less windscreen clutter, and no chance of it being stolen from cars like ours.

Sounds like a bad move to me though.
Maybe the precursor to every car being trackable by law, roll on 1984.

iank - 5/12/13 at 09:30 AM

Not sure why people think it's a bad move, only the physical disc is being phased out (you still need to apply for and pay the tax at which point MOT and insurance are checked same as before). Arguably if paying monthly (another option being added) they could check MOT and insurance are still valid which would be tighter than now where you only need insurance and MOT on the day of issue.

As no-one uses the disc anymore* and just look it up on the computer there's no real change day to day. APNR already could track your car every time you go past a camera no need for any changes to cars or the tax system.

ETA: * except nosy neighbours


[Edited on 5/12/13 by iank]

owelly - 5/12/13 at 09:54 AM

TBH, even though illegal, I've never had a tax disc on my bikes or kit cars for the past 20 years! My bike tax discs get laminated and kept in my bike jacket pocket. The discs in the kit cars get laminated and are used as a key ring! I did make a disc holder as part of my dash design at one point but the revised dash didn't include such a thing.
It's not very often I leave my toys parked-up at the side of the road for anyone to have a looksy at the disc and as said, the BiB can check all your details with one radio call or one flash from the ANPR.
I would still like to see a combined VED, MoT and insurance 'disc', or a disc made up of three segments, just to remind me of when stuff is due. I could keep this in my pocket too.

chrism - 5/12/13 at 11:42 AM

I like the idea of the direct debit for tax, a bit annoying that they are going to charge 5% to use it but it does mean that you don't have to pay out the full amount once a year and if you take your car/bike off the road then you wont have the hassle of posting the disc back and waiting for a cheque to come through you could just cancel the direct debit hopefully. Also it would be nice if it just kept going so you didn't have to do anything to renew except maybe get a reminder letter.

But then again it is the DVLA so that might not happen.

It also gonna knock the poo out of the motorbike market for tax disc holders, but it will make the bike look neater.

DavidW - 5/12/13 at 04:59 PM

Now I regret drilling a ring of holes into my carbon dasboard to mount the tax disc holder.

I need a big sticker....

morcus - 5/12/13 at 05:06 PM

I've been saying they should do this for years. Remember It's already illegal to have tax on an uninsured car, after 28 days (I think) you get sent a fine so don't see not having a disk being any issue with regards to people not taxing cars, if anything it will be harder to get away with it. They should also make it transferable to your next car.

02GF74 - 5/12/13 at 05:20 PM

Its a half measure. Why not put it onto fuel?

Why should someone who drives 50 miles per year pay as much as somebidy who drves 20,000 miles?

ReMan - 5/12/13 at 05:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
Its a half measure. Why not put it onto fuel?

Why should someone who drives 50 miles per year pay as much as somebidy who drves 20,000 miles?


I've said this forever.
As much as I expect it would be a disproprtionate levy, it would stop penalising people who do minimal mileage, in any particular vehicle, it could even be instead of the badly implemented vintage car tax exemption. At least then if you just happen to use your 1970 Cortina as the family vehicle and 10k a year then maybe you should pay to keep the raods, if you only use it like ous, for fun you pay when you use it not when its parkled up for the 300 wet days of the year

Simon - 5/12/13 at 06:13 PM

Don't put it on fuel, just scrap the charge unless the money is going to be used for the roads by road users, which also means scrapping cheap/free rfl for hybrids and all the other eco bull that's in favour at the moment.

Do more miles, you already pay for it with massive fuel duty/vat etc.

ATB

Simon

NigeEss - 5/12/13 at 06:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by owelly
TBH, even though illegal, I've never had a tax disc on my bikes


Ditto, bikes and my soft top Landy, although only about five years.

morcus - 5/12/13 at 07:28 PM

I'd be for paying more fuel duty to scrap rfl.

britishtrident - 5/12/13 at 07:39 PM

Putting it on fuel duty is grossly unfair to people who live in the middle of nowhere, for instance in some parts of Scotland people live 40 miles or more from the nearest supermarket, they have no choice but to depend a car for transport.

Getting rid of tax discs is another example of lack of up thinking on the part of gov.uk. Don't be too surprised if they backtrack on this as the current lot have had toat least partly undo most of the major changes they have introduced.

steve m - 5/12/13 at 07:43 PM

I Know it will upset someone, but were people live is their decision, and know one forced anyone to live out in the sticks

I chose to live near my family, and have 2 kids and my parents with a 10 min walk, so don't need the car

David Jenkins - 5/12/13 at 07:54 PM

I would much rather pay my road tax as a supplement to my petrol price - I seem to be doing a bit more than the 'standard' 10k miles per year on my tin-top, but I'd happily pay for what I use, especially as it manages 40mpg around town, 50mpg on a long run. This is for a car that only requires £30 per year tax - I'd end up paying more, but it would be fair. The Chelsea tractors that do less than 20mpg (not diesels!) will have to pay their dues...

The Locost sitting in the garage that has only done 750 miles per annum still costs me over £250, which seems very unfair...

britishtrident - 5/12/13 at 08:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by steve m
I Know it will upset someone, but were people live is their decision, and know one forced anyone to live out in the sticks

I chose to live near my family, and have 2 kids and my parents with a 10 min walk, so don't need the car



There is a vast difference in perception between the cosy Home Counties and wilderness of Caithness, never the twain shall meet which one of the reasons the Scottish Independence Referendum will be a dammed close run thing. Leaving the north and south of Scotland aside north of England, the west country, the valleys of Wales and the six counties Ulster all have a sizeable populations living miles from anywhere.

steve m - 5/12/13 at 08:10 PM

Also by putting tax on the fuel, means the scumbag cheaters, will still have to pay for the tax, as at the moment they don't
and as said, the little old lady who doe 50 miles a year, does not pay through the nose, nor does she ruin or wear out the road
but the taxi/lorry driver, etc on 50k plus have to pay more

I can not see a better argument to lose the RfT for good
And as David says the Chelsea tractor brigade on a sub 20mpg, will suffer big time

jacko - 5/12/13 at 08:14 PM

Hypothetical question
Person parks car down a back road no tax .
police / traffic warden never go down this road how do Joe public know if it has tax if there is no tax disc ?

britishtrident - 5/12/13 at 08:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jacko
Hypothetical question
Person parks car down a back road no tax .
police / traffic warden never go down this road how do Joe public know if it has tax if there is no tax disc ?


Occurred to me also Also applies to anybody living out in the boonies and never takes the car on to a motorway or into a city.

All this can mean is more yet automated surveillance and logging , the government will know exactly where everybody is and has been.

morcus - 5/12/13 at 09:28 PM

Surely the kind of nosey neighbour who's checking everyones tax disk is just as likely to check online. I'm not sure how but I'm certain you can check if a cars taxed, you can certainly check if it's insured and you can't have the tax without that. It's probably not very common now but you can fake a tax disk, and you can make one thats quite convincing through a windscreen and holder.

I think someone quoted a charge of 5% for paying by direct debit, wouldn't that make it cheaper than buying two 6 month tax discs is at the moment?

matt_claydon - 5/12/13 at 09:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jacko
Hypothetical question
Person parks car down a back road no tax .
police / traffic warden never go down this road how do Joe public know if it has tax if there is no tax disc ?


Check on DVLA website? Been able to do that for years. Can't fake that, but anyone with a PC and a colour printer can make a convincing looking disc.

The online system is far more secure - discs themselves have been meaningless for years, just like the MOT cert (which has now correctly been turned into no more than a receipt).

chrism - 5/12/13 at 09:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by morcus
Surely the kind of nosey neighbour who's checking everyones tax disk is just as likely to check online. I'm not sure how but I'm certain you can check if a cars taxed, you can certainly check if it's insured and you can't have the tax without that. It's probably not very common now but you can fake a tax disk, and you can make one thats quite convincing through a windscreen and holder.

I think someone quoted a charge of 5% for paying by direct debit, wouldn't that make it cheaper than buying two 6 month tax discs is at the moment?


I think the 5% is going to apply to people buying a six month disc now aswell. (Well from when it starts anyway)

iank - 5/12/13 at 10:45 PM

One minor nit, it's not been called Road Fund License, or been reserved for the maintenance of roads, since 1936.
It's just general taxation based on owning cars, much in the same way that VAT is just general taxation based on buying "stuff".

alistairolsen - 7/12/13 at 01:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
Its a half measure. Why not put it onto fuel?

Why should someone who drives 50 miles per year pay as much as somebidy who drves 20,000 miles?


Id be happy to see it on fuel, despite doing a lot of miles, as not only would it reduce the size of the sloth like DVLA office, but anyone in a moving vehicle would have paid it. It simplifies massively the process of owning a number of vehicles used for only part of a year (in the past you could leave them taxed and just dayinsure them if they were kept off road but that's now impossible.....)

SteveWalker - 7/12/13 at 03:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jacko
Hypothetical question
Person parks car down a back road no tax .
police / traffic warden never go down this road how do Joe public know if it has tax if there is no tax disc ?


Does it really matter? OK they may be breaking the law, but some people don't have a driveway to take a vehicle off-road for SORN. As long as they don't drive it anywhere, I don't object - legally wrong, but not morally wrong.

As soon as they drive it, they risk being caught - it's not just on motorways, there are cameras near big shopping centres, on major roads and the police regularly put mobile cameras at the side of roads. More and more police vehicles are also fitted with cameras which scan the plates of every vehicle they pass and flag up irregularities. It is likely that they would be caught fairly quickly. It's the ones with false plates or registered to fictitious addresses that are harder to deal with and that won't change.