Total cost around £0
Like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/ragtag04/8414175453/
Hallo, seasons greetings :-)
Need some advice if possible.
New arrival in the house (child no 4), missus is complaining that the Landy Disco 2 takes ages to warm in the cold mornings. It does to be honest,
only gets to 'proper' cabin temperature if at motorway speeds - the 7 mile commute to work leaves it barely registering on the temp gauge -
slightly better since I had it chipped up, but still poor. Been through the cooling system, all fine - it's just the way it is....
So, had a look at cooling system preheating retrofit systems, Kenlowe/webasto/similar. Far too expensive in my opinion, hundreds of quids....
Also looked at 'new' water pre-heaters on the market - not inspired, look a bit wimpy....1000W heaters.....my kettle is 1800W....
Checked out the prices on bespoke LR diesel powered systems fitted to 'cold climate market' cars, very expensive, and only assist quicker
heating when the car is running. didn't realise that Ford, Peugeot, BMW have similar systems on some models - all webasto based. looked at
retrofitting one of these but want a pre heater really.
So, in true Locost style, I'm making my own!
Spent the day on ebay, for a couple of quid I have now got a 2000W 240V dishwasher inline water heater, a 12V VW auxiliary water pump , and a
weatherproof 3 pin 240V plug and receiver similar to those found on caravans. Going to mount the female plug in the front bumper somewhere to allow
quick connect/disconnect. Male plug running to the mains feed in the house/garage...
The plan is to break in and plumb the pump and heater into the cooling system, run the heater from the house mains (similar to the Kenlowe system) on
a timer and extension lead with an RCD. A bit of coolant hose and some pipe connectors and I should be there. Plenty of room to fit it all in the
engine bay. A light on the dashboard when the system is running and a buzzer if the ignition is switched on should prevent the missus driving off with
the car still wired to the house :-)
All very simple so far, but I need advice on how to automatically switch the DC pump on when the AC heater comes online? and vice versa....
Looked at solid state AC switching DC relays, not really my area of expertise although I understand the principle. The wiring circuit I can sort, but
need some advice on a good supplier of AC switched DC relays? All those on Ebay are from China I think, and I don't want to muck about seeing as
I am connecting the car heater to the mains....
Any ideas/thoughts?
Cheers, Rich.
[Edited on 27/12/13 by richard thomas]
[Edited on 27/12/13 by richard thomas]
cpc farnell (and rs and maplin) all do a huge range of relays
this should be suitable:
http://cpc.farnell.com/omron-industrial-automation/g2r-1-t-240vac/relay-power-pcb-spdt-240v-ac/dp/SW04807?in_merch=New%20Products&MER=e-bb45-00001
002
but the old (and lo-cost) way is just to block the airflow with some card!
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
cpc farnell (and rs and maplin) all do a huge range of relays
this should be suitable:
http://cpc.farnell.com/omron-industrial-automation/g2r-1-t-240vac/relay-power-pcb-spdt-240v-ac/dp/SW04807?in_merch=New%20Products&MER=e-bb45-00001 002
but the old (and lo-cost) way is just to block the airflow with some card!
or you could run the pump from an on board 12v psu, (computer psu or battery charger) (or source a mains one from the dishwasher )
you can also get power connectors that eject the supply/ plug when starting the engine
I would advise very strongly that you do not use the male plug for the mains supply. That is highly dangerous in the wrong hands.
quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
I would advise very strongly that you do not use the male plug for the mains supply. That is highly dangerous in the wrong hands.
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
or you could run the pump from an on board 12v psu, (computer psu or battery charger) (or source a mains one from the dishwasher )
you can also get power connectors that eject the supply/ plug when starting the engine
It will work without a pump. Just plumb in the heater at the bottom of the circuit and convection will do its magic. ( like the indirect cylinder water heater on older style central heating systems )
quote:
Originally posted by fazerruss
It will work without a pump. Just plumb in the heater at the bottom of the circuit and convection will do its magic. ( like the indirect cylinder water heater on older style central heating systems )
quote:
I like the sound of an ejecting plug - got any pointers? :-)
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
quote:
I like the sound of an ejecting plug - got any pointers? :-)
http://www.ludomcgurk.com/folder/is/products/12_4_prod.pdf
undoubtedly others available,
you also have to ensure the lead that is ejected is left hanging safley
big-vee-twin is absolutely correct,
you will see that this has the plug/male pins on the load side, not the supply,
supply is a trailing socket
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
big-vee-twin is absolutely correct,
you will see that this has the plug/male pins on the load side, not the supply,
supply is a trailing socket
This might suit a bit better (and safer)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370829122938?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
Before getting into expensive systems what about trying the old black cab favourite of putting a bit of cardboard over half the radiator.
Total cost around £0
Like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/ragtag04/8414175453/
Try to find 'Heater blows hotter'?
Its an aditive product that i remember reading about donkeys years ago in 'Revs' magazine (Forgive me, I was 17) review was positive but
googling now only seems to bring up US based products.
EDIT
heres something similar
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WATER-WETTER-HEATER-HOTTER-16oz-040206-/310825868483
[Edited on 28-12-13 by loggyboy]
I've bought 2 full webasto setups from local scrappers for £50 each including pumps etc. from early diesel Rover 75s.
A quick clean and test and they're both running perfectly 2 years and 18 months on.
Well worth checking locally.
[Edited on 28/12/13 by UncleFista]
quote:
Originally posted by UncleFista
I've bought 2 full webasto setups from local scrappers for £50 each including pumps etc. from early diesel Rover 75s.
A quick clean and test and they're both running perfectly 2 years and 18 months on.
Well worth checking locally.
[Edited on 28/12/13 by UncleFista]
quote:
Originally posted by iank
Before getting into expensive systems what about trying the old black cab favourite of putting a bit of cardboard over half the radiator.
Total cost around £0
Like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/ragtag04/8414175453/
Just a thought but it's the cab you want to heat initially not the engine so why not use the mains hookup to power a mains fan heater under one of the seats. It will come with a termal cutout for protection and as it's the only mains thing in the vehicle doesn't involve relays or any other malarky. Easy enough to wire in a mains powered buzzer (of suitably annoying volume) to ensure that car is not driven off with lead connected...
quote:
Originally posted by richard thomas
quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
I would advise very strongly that you do not use the male plug for the mains supply. That is highly dangerous in the wrong hands.
+1
It's one of these?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400608400828?var=670164408807&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
quote:
Originally posted by slingshot2000
quote:
Originally posted by richard thomas
quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
I would advise very strongly that you do not use the male plug for the mains supply. That is highly dangerous in the wrong hands.
+1
It's one of these?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400608400828?var=670164408807&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
NO, NO, NO !
You must NEVER, EVER have male pins live, NEVER ! And if you need telling, should you really be messing about with something that contains 240voltA/C and water, in a metal container ?
Rest assured I shall desist maintaining aircraft with immediate
effect, or at the very least stop running ideas on here after a bottle or 2 of vino 
quote:
Originally posted by richard thomas
quote:
Originally posted by slingshot2000
quote:
Originally posted by richard thomas
quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
I would advise very strongly that you do not use the male plug for the mains supply. That is highly dangerous in the wrong hands.
+1
It's one of these?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400608400828?var=670164408807&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
NO, NO, NO !
You must NEVER, EVER have male pins live, NEVER ! And if you need telling, should you really be messing about with something that contains 240voltA/C and water, in a metal container ?
Thanks - I get the point, hence my later post with the link to the plug with male pins which would be fitted to the car. The female being the power supply...
I do thank you for your concern though, especially over my evident incompetence.
No worries Jon, and it was sound advice after all
I put an engine block heater on my Cherokee last winter and did the same thing with a timer. The kit had a small heating element that took the place
of one of the engine block freeze plugs. I know it wasn't nearly as powerful as what you are running but the coolant would be warm even in the
middle of winter. After driving for a minute or two, the temperature was able to come up enough to where I had heat.
A similar kit isn't available for your car?
quote:
Originally posted by atm92484
I put an engine block heater on my Cherokee last winter and did the same thing with a timer. The kit had a small heating element that took the place of one of the engine block freeze plugs. I know it wasn't nearly as powerful as what you are running but the coolant would be warm even in the middle of winter. After driving for a minute or two, the temperature was able to come up enough to where I had heat.
A similar kit isn't available for your car?
quote:
Originally posted by richard thomas
Nice one.
I'll certainly have a look at that price. The only reason I was put off was the prices on ebay. Looks like they can be rigged to preheat whilst the car isn't running.
Quick question, do those units have an internal fuel pump or will they run with diesel that it gravity fed? I understand that the Disco has a working fuel pressure that is very high, however thinking that there is no reason why the fuel return line shouldn't be able to feed a small collector tank which could feed the unit. Don't suppose you know how much fuel they burn over, say, 30 minutes?
Cheers, Rich.
quote:
Originally posted by UncleFista
quote:
Originally posted by richard thomas
Nice one.
I'll certainly have a look at that price. The only reason I was put off was the prices on ebay. Looks like they can be rigged to preheat whilst the car isn't running.
Quick question, do those units have an internal fuel pump or will they run with diesel that it gravity fed? I understand that the Disco has a working fuel pressure that is very high, however thinking that there is no reason why the fuel return line shouldn't be able to feed a small collector tank which could feed the unit. Don't suppose you know how much fuel they burn over, say, 30 minutes?
Cheers, Rich.
One of the setups I sold including fitting by myself for £150, I could have charged £300 in the depths of winter. eBay prices are silly.
I have mine set up with a remote so I can switch it on from my kitchen, 20 minutes and it's as hot as if it's been on a run.
I soon replaced the original remote and switch for one with a timer after I'd forgotten and drained the battery
They won't work with gravity fed fuel, they need the original dosing pump. On the Rover they're under the sill at the rear near the tank. If you find one be careful with it, they rust away and are expensive to replace. They receive a signal from the heater which decides on flow rate.
People have set up small tanks in the boot so they can run on red diesel.
Fuel use, a mate tested his, from -3 to running temperature it used 250ml of red diesel.
If you're looking in person, the heater is situated in front of the battery box.
Brilliant!! :-) I don't suppose you have a wiring diagram or similar?
quote:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Engine-Block-Pre-Heater-220-240v-by-AutoHeat-hot-start-guaranteed-/111245674298?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=it em19e6c2473a
quote:
Originally posted by scimjim
quote:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Engine-Block-Pre-Heater-220-240v-by-AutoHeat-hot-start-guaranteed-/111245674298?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=it em19e6c2473a
a friend fitted one of these and after testing at different ambient temps/durations has concluded that it's a waste of time and money!!
Made, fitted, works :-) cost me £40....and some bits and pieces I had laying around.....
Made, fitted, works :-) cost me £40....and some bits and pieces I had laying around.....