This bbc article about cars sending their location etc in event of a crash for me thinking.
What with auto braking cars, radar guided cruise control integrated satnav etc how long before driving your own car becomes a rare occurrence?
The more scary thing is how long before insurance companies start analysing your driving data after a crash to avoid paying out!?
Some long drives are dull and boring but I'd still rather drive myself than let a machine do it.... I'm quite young and this trend
genuinely worries me.... We don't need this tech but it's being pushed because people will make money from it..... Sad times
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30337272
The crash avoidance stats on a google controlled cars look quite impressive. Eventually I guess you will get a lower premium if own one and that will
drive the market. The noise limits at the track will be so low that you will have to drive an electric car. If F1(E) can do it they why not all the
tracks.
I still keep playing the sound from my last track day last Sunday for the noise alone:
http://youtu.be/_uidzWq31YQ
It's only a matter of time 
Some Insurance companies already off discounts for young drivers if they have a tracker/gps device fitted in their cars, reports back driving style,
speeds, times, where and when. Take that a bit further and force them into most/all cars (or they become standard fitments in new cars...) and
it's not far away that everyone may as well just be a passenger because there won't be any fun/enjoyment in driving on the road any more.
Ian
Grim! In sure there was a study somewhere that suggested people need to take risks, it's in our nature.... Drivin fullfills that to some
extent...
I just wonder what happens after 5-10 years when things start to go wrong in these cars, it's going to cost a fortune to keep the electronics
working properly....
there are already plenty of these gizmo,s fitted to everyday tin tops,soon you average dog will be able to go for a drive,the skills needed are being
whittled away and when it all goes pear shaped and something fails they wont have a clue....just look at what happens when you get snow or fog.
To be honest, having spent around 6 hours this week sat on the M27. I'm all in favour of "road trains" where software maintains the spacings and speed. Maybe just in one lane and in rush hour only...
I think the arrival of sat navs and the 'sheep' who blindly follow them off a cliff does suggest we'll never get to the
'Demolition Man' like nirvana of completely self driving cars. Even the relative popularity of manual gearboxes over automatics give a guide
on how much control we want to retain (well, at least for the UK anyway!).
Having said that, now I have a C class with lots of toys, it does make long journeys very comfortable.
By the way, did anyone see the article where they mentioned the possible changes in driving tests? Not the night driving or motorway driving or
anything useful like that, the new addition to a driving test is 'the ability to use a satnav'...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30249249
Manual gearboxes will disappear as manufacturers phase them out. It's not or choice.
quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
I think the arrival of sat navs and the 'sheep' who blindly follow them off a cliff does suggest we'll never get to the 'Demolition Man' like nirvana of completely self driving cars. Even the relative popularity of manual gearboxes over automatics give a guide on how much control we want to retain (well, at least for the UK anyway!).
Having said that, now I have a C class with lots of toys, it does make long journeys very comfortable.
By the way, did anyone see the article where they mentioned the possible changes in driving tests? Not the night driving or motorway driving or anything useful like that, the new addition to a driving test is 'the ability to use a satnav'...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30249249
Not far off now
link
Another worry I have is that as people become more and more dependent on these aids, and 'forget' how to drive without them, what happens
when they malfunction?
Sorry Officer, my driver aid failed and the car let me pull out and kill the motorcyclist......
:
My big worries with self driving cars is firstly, what happens when there's a crash? If my car is driving itself who's fault would it be if
it hits another self driving car, or worse still one that's being driven by a person whos done nothing wrong. I was under the impression this
issue was actually the main reason we don't have them already.
My second issue is one that comes from having lived in busy cities and I think is more important. One of the touted benefits of self driving cars is
more efficient road use and near seamless merging of traffic and such, my fear is how will people be able to cross the roads as in busy cities and
towns you'd have a constant chain of cars just inches apart, they'd not be able to stop quickly without injuring the passengers. Even with
lights every car in the chain would have to come to a complete stop at green crossing lights until there was space for it the other side of the light
(Though everyone should already be doing this but no one does)
I think self driving cars on the motorway is a brilliant idea, I recently drove a Golf with radar cruise control which was brilliant for driving
through the road works on the M5. I completely agree though that too many people don't really know how to drive with out basic aids like power
steering and abs (and anyone who's had the power steering go will really know how bad that can be) and with cars getting more complex and more
expensive it seems to me the future is likely to have more systems going wrong.
Finally, theres always stuff in the paper about people following the sat nav down railways and into rivers, just imagine how much worse it would be if
the car was driving itself as presumably there are currently hundreds more people every day ignoreing the sat nav when it says to do this.
Interesting.
Just sorting out a dash cam for daughter as a Xmas pressie- some insurance companies offering discounts if you have one. I can only presume that the
evidence from camera saves them from paying out much more than the discount they offer. Rule number 1- insurance compay never loses!
I'm getting old and cynical!
atb
Mike
On the flip side, I'm pretty sure that removing the human factor would significantly reduce the yearly death toll on the roads. You could realistically save 1500 lives a year. I for one will accept it when the time comes.
One of the guys at work has a new Jag and I was having a read of the handbook. Says in there that speed, brake effort, steering angle, accelerometers are all logged and are available for the Police after an accident
Porsche are looking at virtual sims being built into the cars ECU's, opens a whole new raft of things on live data you can collect, also
tracking, remote power down etc.
It's not the future, here now.
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
I think the arrival of sat navs and the 'sheep' who blindly follow them off a cliff does suggest we'll never get to the 'Demolition Man' like nirvana of completely self driving cars. Even the relative popularity of manual gearboxes over automatics give a guide on how much control we want to retain (well, at least for the UK anyway!).
Having said that, now I have a C class with lots of toys, it does make long journeys very comfortable.
By the way, did anyone see the article where they mentioned the possible changes in driving tests? Not the night driving or motorway driving or anything useful like that, the new addition to a driving test is 'the ability to use a satnav'...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30249249
Yeah I saw that... Whats more odd is that they are planning to remove the three point turn as well..
They said they're keeping parallel parking and I'd assume they'll keep other reversing stuff like going around corners. I completely
agree with you though that there should be more reversing as I used to have the same problem all the time in Bristol, usually at the end of streets
because people were parked too close to corners so for the person entering the road reversing wouldn't be an option.
I think they should have a section of the test where they turn off all the driver aids, or maybe even the whole car to prove you can safely stop and
get out of the middle of the road should it happen, obviously not on the actual road, I also think you should have to do the test twice in two
different cars.
Cars are made to a price, not so they will never go wrong. They are filled with cheap electronics. Constant model change means new system aren't
tested as thoroughly as they could be.
Several times a week I fix cars that have running faults, and faults with safety systems (i.e Airbags, stability control, ABS etc.) that are caused by
water ingress and corrosion.
Some of these faults cause the vehicle to do strange and unexpected things.
I run a small garage down in Devon, I originally trained as an electronics engineer before moving into the family business. I undertake as much
training as I can to keep up with the ever changing technology and invest heavily in diagnostic equipment and access to technical information. I
understand these systems far better than most other mechanics and I see their short falls.
The Automotive industry very much suffers from an image problem and is still seen as the place for those that are not achieving academically at school
to be pushed towards. Cars are getting ever more complex and beyond the understanding of many in the industry.
Vehicle electronics systems are not robust and reliable enough to be left alone to drive the car. Even in formula 1 where the specification of
components is much higher you get many electronics faults. Jules Bianchi's accident is though to have been caused by the drive-by-wire braking
not talking correctly to the safety systems(http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117031).
So where does this leave the future? Overly complicated cars that develop faults, park them selves to the side of the road for safety reasons, that
no-one knows how to fix? disposable cars that have a life span of 12-18 months like phones?
[Edited on 8/12/14 by DW100]
As per the points made previously I don't see how the risk and liability element will work. How will manufacturers deal with liability if a driverless car causes a crash?
I don't think insurance will loose out are cars are safer for occupants and pedestrians for example air bags crumple zones than they were 20
years ago the same will be same for cars with these systems on they will make it safer for all.
The dangerous bits are us unpredictable pink bits joining the pedals to the wheels.
I know planes cost millions of pounds but we are regularly flown and landed by computer why would a car be any more difficult to drive and insure
least the maximum occupancy is likely to be 5 or 6 not 600. Yes pilots are there to take over but this is rare.
Black bosses for new drivers are the norm cameras watching our number plates logging locations more normal than we think a few years and they will be
here. Drive by wire throttles are now standard on most cars !
ATB agriv8
[Edited on 8/12/14 by Agriv8]
What you are likely to see is reduced choice as a driver over what the car does.
There is already a move within the industry for cars to log faults, contact the manufacturer, who's agent will then call you to bring the car in
to be fixed.
Imagine that the car can now drive itself. You wake up one morning and go outside to find the car has decided it needs urgent work and has driven to
the dealer, sending you an email or text to let you know where it has gone. Not much help in getting you to work?
You'll get a bill (which you'll have no choice but to pay because the manufacturer say it'll affect the safety of other road users),
once this is paid the car will return to you.
Will you be able to modify your car? No! It'll affect the safety of other road users.
Will you be able to build your own? No way!!
No more driving around for months with fault lights on because you are too busy or can't afford to fix it, you will have no choice.
Rather strangely this all makes me rather depressed
Me too! It's not just cars though, pretty much every aspect of life is slowly becoming computerised to the point where you almost feel choked by technology....
A lot of people whinged when ABS was introduced "It is taking away our control of braking my car how I want" etc.
Now every car has it, it has drastically reduced road deaths due to the massive decrease in braking distance and the extra controllability when
braking hard on a less than straight stretch of road.
We already fly around in aircraft that take off, fly and land using a computer whilst the pilot sits and watches, and that again has made flying
safer.
Get with the times people
quote:
A lot of people whinged when ABS was introduced "It is taking away our control of braking my car how I want" etc.
Now every car has it, it has drastically reduced road deaths due to the massive decrease in braking distance and the extra controllability when braking hard on a less than straight stretch of road.
We already fly around in aircraft that take off, fly and land using a computer whilst the pilot sits and watches, and that again has made flying safer.
Get with the times people
quote:
Originally posted by DW100
I see this attitude all the time......until they get a quote for over £2000 to fix their ABS or air bag or radio aerial!!!
Things in the motor trade are changing, maybe for the good, maybe not. Manufacturers are trying to restrict access to information to repair cars under the pretence of security or safety. It still surprises me that you can start a garage with no qualifications or experience what so ever, and manufacturers are using this to say that people outside their network are not competent to carry out repairs and it is in the interest of the general public that all cars are serviced and repaired by an authorised dealer. As an enthusiast that means you would not be allowed to work on your on car.
Some form of Technician licencing (along the lines of Corgi / Gas safe) is seen by most in the trade trying to do good job as a good thing. Car are getting more complex, with a huge increase in safety critical systems. Is it right that anyone, without any qualifications or knowledge is repairing these systems?
Of course the need for better qualified staff and licencing will increase the cost of running a garage and that cost will be passed on to the customer. But hey get with the times people!!
Don't get me wrong, I love electronics and gadgets but not sure that I'd trust them to be 100% reliable.
Through my enthusiasm for electronics I've been playing with Arduino and Raspberry Pi. The hackers love them. For less than £20 you can build a
device that creates a WiFi hotspot and server and will sit inside a coffee cup. They go to a pub or cafe and host fake web pages that look like social
media login pages and as people try to log in they steal login details.
I can already sit in my office and connect to my diagnostic gear via Bluetooth and operate cars 10m away.
Self parking cars mean they are capable of driving themselves. If you have WiFi on your phone connected via Bluetooth then it should be possible to
hack your way in and send malicious softwarefrom anywhere in the world.............your imagination can fill in the rest.
The reality is that the independent motor trade is very resourceful. Over the years there has been a huge amount of scaremongering ever time something
new is introduced but we cope. I remember being told that when they brought in emmisions testing for the first time that no cars would get through
without a new carburettor and distributor. The reality is I think I sold 1!
[Edited on 9/12/14 by DW100]
New in car data telematics may be a game changer and reduce consumer choice over vehicle repair. FIGIEFA “Connected Car” video released!
http://www.figiefa.eu/figiefa-connected-car-video-released/
[Edited on 23/12/14 by DW100]
Trucks have all this tracking built in, many company's use league tables in the transport office with points for all sorts of stuff, cruise
control, harsh braking, mpg etc.
Not seen any comment on excessive acceleration mind you 