evening all
if i was to buy a car of ebay for £300...
and then find out later it has a log book loan on it, who is responsible?
is a HPI check guaranteed accurate, would it pick up a payday loan?
If a car has no tax or mot, can you still get a loan on it?
It hasnt happened to me yet, trying to stop it happening.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2111066/Logbook-loan-second-hand-car-trap-One-outstanding-finance-YOU-liable.html
A skim of this implies that an HPI check should show it up, and if the lender hasn't registered the loan with HPI then you have some comeback.
Ok will read the link once I'm back on a pc..
Read that link with some alarm.
Surely, surely, our useless political 'gangsta' parasitic scum could sort this out somehow. I guess it doesn't feature on their
horizons though, or personal experience - acquiring a 2nd hand car.
My mate did an HPI on a TD5 at a dealers in Kent. No probs.
Payed £1000 deposit. Car was to be serviced prior to delivery.
A couple of days before delivery got a phone call from Kent Police.
Stolen from Hampshire. The real one sat on a ladies drive in Scotland.
With my mates help they caught the bloke. Taken to court for over £1m worth of cars.
Released on bail, and skipped the country to Spain.
My mate never did get his money back.
HPI, doesn't guarantee a thing.
According to that report, if it was on a log book loan the seller wouldn't have the V5. I suppose he could have applied for a duplicate?
Presumably, if a pay day loan has nothing to do with any collateral (i.e. the car), it would not be an issue and would remain the business of the
borrower?
I thought the fact that payday loans are unsecured was one reason why they were so popular with certain people? Although I do know one that
specifically advertises loans against cars, I would hope they would show up on a HPI check.
907, that sounds like an instance of ringing, which I don't believe would show up on any check? Having said that, the better HPI checks do cover
the reg number, VIN and the V5 all lining up which may have shown something? The cheap HPI checks only check the reg and it's history.
Just reading the article it also highlights the difference between the cheaper and more expensive checks;
quote:
He had checked beforehand that the car wasn’t stolen – but he failed to do a full HPI check which would have revealed the dangerous history of the motor.
quote:
Originally posted by 907
My mate did an HPI on a TD5 at a dealers in Kent. No probs.
Payed £1000 deposit. Car was to be serviced prior to delivery.
A couple of days before delivery got a phone call from Kent Police.
Stolen from Hampshire. The real one sat on a ladies drive in Scotland.
With my mates help they caught the bloke. Taken to court for over £1m worth of cars.
Released on bail, and skipped the country to Spain.
My mate never did get his money back.
HPI, doesn't guarantee a thing.
Log book loans are (typically) against the vehicle, not the person who took them out. Hence why they're log book loans; the car is used as collateral and easy to recover/sell in case of default payment. I don't know if an HPI check would cover these, but I would hope so!
If there is a charge against a vehicle or anything it must be registered in some way.
The answer is....its complicated
If you as a private individual purchase a car which is subject to a hire purchase or conditional sale agreement in "good faith" and without
knowledge of the agreement then you will get good title and the finance company can go hang. In this day and age it would usually, but not always, be
necessary to do an HPI check to establish good faith. This has been the case since 1964. see below from the Hire Purchase Act 1964:-
"27 Protection of purchasers of motor vehicles.
(1)This section applies where a motor vehicle has been bailed or (in Scotland) hired under a hire-purchase agreement, or has been agreed to be sold
under a conditional sale agreement, and, before the property in the vehicle has become vested in the debtor, he disposes of the vehicle to another
person.
(2)Where the disposition referred to in subsection (1) above is to a private purchaser, and he is a purchaser of the motor vehicle in good faith
without notice of the hire-purchase or conditional sale agreement (the “relevant agreement”) that disposition shall have effect as if the creditor’s
title to the vehicle has been vested in the debtor immediately before that disposition."
The difficulty with "log book loans" is that the loan agreement does not necessarily amount to a hire purchase or conditional sale
agreement. The agreement tales effect as a sale to the lender - they own the car. Hence if it is sold without permission they take it back leaving the
purchaser out of pocket. It seems arguable to me that these loans might be hire purchase agreements - anybody want to give it a whirl?
The Labour Government wanted to amend the legislation but the latest lot have opted for self regulation.
There is a code of practice that states that the loan agreement ought to be registered. In short do an HPI check and you should be covered by their
guarantee.
By co-incidence what I was supposed to be doing today was defending a claim where a vehicle, subject to finance, had a new number plate and the
chassis number was mis-recorded at HPI. It was sold without the finance being repaid. It settled so I am at a loose end.
Buying stolen cars - that is a whole new subject.
There was a post on one of the landy forums recently where someone had bought a landy which he subsequently found out was subject to a logbook loan.
He had done an HPI on it and it DID NOT show up. The seller also still had the v5 and not the loan company.
The guy had taken the unusual step of trying to sell the car for spares ( it was a nice motor as well with no damage) as he reckoned he MIGHT get away
with selling the parts, in order to recoup some of his costs, and then scrapping the shell etc that was left. If the loan company had come looking for
the car the paper trail would lead to a scrapped car. An idealogical idea that would not involve duping another buyer perhaps?
I'm not sure what the outcome was.
Not much was discussed on the post at the time but there are a few of the forums coming up with logbook loan questions now.